Red Arrow Grievance

[Speedtape]

I can't even count the number of times I've been denied a swap for a trip on the exact same days only to see it given to someone junior to me. The reason given..."not enough reserves", even breaks it down for me and mysteriously its always the same ratio...32 reserves needed/31 available...funny how it can always be the same.

I for one can't wait for real time open time that takes the human factor out of the approval process...come on PBS!

I am with ya Brother!

 

[outtahere]

You are correct, but I don't see us winning this one. Sometimes you get the devil and sometimes the devil gets you. It sucks, but given the overall state of things at our airline, between downgrades, furloughs, losing more aircraft soon and a terrible profit margin, we do have many other fish to fry.

And despite all that, we have much to be grateful for as far as pay and QOL compared to many of our contemporaries. Don't make me make a list.

But by all means, do take the time to chew your reps ears and beat this thing silly on the survey. It should be one of our top negotiating goals.

I call bullsh!t on this one! Sure, we have it good at ASA, that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and take it because its good for management! We have a contract, they have to follow it. Its simple really. If you want to get the furloughs back, then making them properly staff the airline is a very good start.

 

[outtahere]

So let me get this straight, you guys think that us signing in PBS is gonna get rid of red arrow days? HA! They will just have the computer set up to deny all trades on red arrow days. Thats probably what they are doing right now.

 

[SLUF4]

I'm with you outtahere. We operate more flights a day than previous years and with less people. We had 917 departures yesterday-that's more than a usual summer day. What will this summer hold for us?

 

[buscap]

I call bullsh!t on this one! Sure, we have it good at ASA, that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and take it because its good for management! We have a contract, they have to follow it. Its simple really. If you want to get the furloughs back, then making them properly staff the airline is a very good start.

I'm no expert, but the way I read the language, they've got us by the short hairs on this one.

For all practical purposes, red-arrow days are the same as restricted days, but on paper they are not. Unless there is a line in the contract which reads "the company will maintain adequate staffing to ensure all open time requests may be honored....", I don't see us winning this one.

We got outflanked. It happens. Well not really outflanked, the language on open time requests is quite clear. Perhaps quite a few folks read something into the whole "restricted day" thing that wasn't ever there.

Is this worth further grievances? Yes

Is it something to be tightened up in the next contract? Yes

Should we fly "safe" and shut the airline down over it? No

Do I want the furloughs back? Heck yes.

Is it something that should have been better addressed in the PBS LOA? Perhaps

Do I want the airline to be overstaffed in a bad business model manner? No

 

[Tarzan]

I'm no expert, but the way I read the language, they've got us by the short hairs on this one.

Is this worth further grievances? Yes

Not much we can do. I'd rather not see a greivance happen for the sole reqason we would likely lose. Next time we address the issue be it in Sec 6 or a MOU, we'd have a precedent to overcome rather than deal with the issue without any legal distinction. I'd love to nail them to the wall on it just for the sake of it but I am afraid we'd be hurting ourselves in the long run for a short term gain.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm with you outtahere. We operate more flights a day than previous years and with less people. We had 917 departures yesterday-that's more than a usual summer day. What will this summer hold for us?

We don't staff for "departures"...We staff for block hours...Notice how we do far more short legs on the 50? I feel like I'm back on the ATR. Less block hours means less flying which means less pilots...Very simple.

You want the furloughs back...Then we need more block hours plain and simple.....

 

[SLUF4]

Well, what are our block hours and what are those compared to years past? Nobody has told us except for a long time ago we got some memo from scott about them being reduced. I haven't seen anything concrete.

 

[Speedtape]

So let me get this straight, you guys think that us signing in PBS is gonna get rid of red arrow days? HA! They will just have the computer set up to deny all trades on red arrow days. Thats probably what they are doing right now.

Red Arrow days want matter. There will not be any Open time to swap because PBS eliminates Open Time to almost none!

 

[mtsupilot]

If you enjoy red arrow days than vote yes to PBS. Just think how much more there will be to complain about if PBS passes.

 

[79%N1]

If you enjoy red arrow days than vote yes to PBS. Just think how much more there will be to complain about if PBS passes.

Like what, specifically? It seems most pilots at ASA feel this system will be better overall than the current one. So, there should be less complaining.

 

[buscap]

Well if sucking more or less is a terrible measure of things, then so be it. But the facts are clear, in that things will suck more if the PBS is voted down.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Like what, specifically? It seems most pilots at ASA feel this system will be better overall than the current one. So, there should be less complaining.

Whoa... whoa... whoa. We all know this will never happen at ASA.

 

[LazyLightnin']

I was told by a scheduler that the whole "overstaffed" idea is a lie. He said it's quite the opposite. Just throwing that out there.

 

[SLUF4]

0 700 captains today on reserve

 

[jdubya]

I wish you guys the best, but its just not gonna happen.

 

[Kerveball]

0 200 FO's as well.......however....it was the nascar race in ATL.

 

[SLUF4]

well there's only 2 today-both nappers

 

[Flybywire44]

Well if sucking more or less is a terrible measure of things, then so be it. But the facts are clear, in that things will suck more if the PBS is voted down.

Yup... A few company subsidized union jobs would go up in smoke, we would recall furloughs and run more upgrades.

I believe ASA is so understaffed that they drastically need PBS to stave off a recall. We're getting quality of life improvements with PBS, but selling the bottom of the list out.

 

[777forever]

Yup... A few company subsidized union jobs would go up in smoke, we would recall furloughs and run more upgrades.

I believe ASA is so understaffed that they drastically need PBS to stave off a recall. We're getting quality of life improvements with PBS, but selling the bottom of the list out.

How can we be overstaffed when the line values are less than 85 credit and 75 block? When I was on the 700 just a couple reserves broke guarantee, and barely. I think the reserve coverage is low because the reserves are being utilized for opentime that can't be picked up by lineholders due to the red arrows and the abundance of four days.

Also, wasn't it sometime last fall that the company fixed the red arrow issue by increasing line values and putting half the seniority list on reserve? I flew with a 10yr captain that was back on reserve! I think the uproar from that reverted us back to the scheduling policy we see today.