Really CAL vs DAL

[ACWild]

I was responding to the Delta bashing by Maverick. I stated that the pilot in question should choose depending where he wants to eventually live. He would have more choices at Delta, which is the point. If he wants to live in Allentown or Princeton, then maybe he should consider CAL. And, do any reserve pilots have crashpads in EWR? Will those reserve pilots remain reserve pilots for awhile if the Age 65 thing is approved? Something to think about, especially with CAL. The scheduled retirements may grind to a hault there.

My only point is that there's lots of nice places to live outside of Newark.

Personally, I don't think the age 65 deal will have as much impact at CAL as everyone thinks. As long as other factors don't inhibit growth, there are plenty of pilots planning on retiring at or before sixty. Also, the ones that I've spoken with who plan on staying longer plan on using up their sick banks and will probably not stay all the way up to 65. Sure, it'll have an impact, but we're not talking the major career catastrophe that many are predicting.
JMHO.

 

[rf285]

My only point is that there's lots of nice places to live outside of Newark.

quote]


I second that opinion. I have lived in Atlanta for 17 years and I think that PA has a lot to offer in comparison.

 

[Scrapdog]

Maybe Gen Lee does enjoy his job, is that so bad? You love CAL so much you go out on Military leave when you can. Looks like you chose Iraq over EWR. Good choice.

Wow, pathetic. I chose Iraq over EWR? I go out on military leave when I can? That is piss poor. First of all, I'm not in Iraq...secondly, I didn't "choose" to be on mil leave - my unit and the ANG NEEDED me to be on mil leave during this time. You think people choose freedom? We don't "choose" freedom, certain individuals fight for freedom so others can "choose" to fly for DAL or CAL and be at home with their families in EWR or ATL. I can garuntee you no one has chosen Iraq over EWR...I don't care how high the gas prices are. If you're going to talk the talk, walk the walk. Again, pathetic...

Speaking of IAH from your last post, there are plenty of upgrades there in the future. I would say much more than our smaller base of CLE...IAH is right behind EWR when it comes to upgrades. And from what I've heard Guam is a great time - as a matter of fact most opt to stay there for multiple years after their commitment is up as they enjoy the flying and the QOL.

Best of luck to your friends at DAL, lear 45 jockey.

 

[johnsonrod]

Wow, pathetic. I chose Iraq over EWR? I go out on military leave when I can? That is piss poor. First of all, I'm not in Iraq...secondly, I didn't "choose" to be on mil leave - my unit and the ANG NEEDED me to be on mil leave during this time. You think people choose freedom? We don't "choose" freedom, certain individuals fight for freedom so others can "choose" to fly for DAL or CAL and be at home with their families in EWR or ATL. I can garuntee you no one has chosen Iraq over EWR...I don't care how high the gas prices are. If you're going to talk the talk, walk the walk. Again, pathetic...

Speaking of IAH from your last post, there are plenty of upgrades there in the future. I would say much more than our smaller base of CLE...IAH is right behind EWR when it comes to upgrades. And from what I've heard Guam is a great time - as a matter of fact most opt to stay there for multiple years after their commitment is up as they enjoy the flying and the QOL.

Best of luck to your friends at DAL, lear 45 jockey.

Back to the original topic - CAL vs. DAL. Can you explain why CAL does not provide new pilots with health coverage for their first 6 months while new managers/executives get that coverage? What airline/company would do that to valued employees (possibly with families)?

I think that's why I'll be applying to Netjets - their benefits and pay are excellent and I can avoid a lot of this 121 cr@p....

 

[ACWild]

Back to the original topic - CAL vs. DAL. Can you explain why CAL does not provide new pilots with health coverage for their first 6 months while new managers/executives get that coverage? What airline/company would do that to valued employees (possibly with families)?

I think that's why I'll be applying to Netjets - their benefits and pay are excellent and I can avoid a lot of this 121 cr@p....

Isn't it obvious? To save money. They'll grab a penny from wherever they can find it. That's what management does. Apparently, whoever voted it in didn't think it was the most important issue.
I think anyone who decides to apply to CAL should understand what the short-term tradeoffs are but should base their decision on their long-term goals. There's always risks, but anyone in the airline business is exposed at some point.

 

[johnsonrod]

Isn't it obvious? To save money. They'll grab a penny from wherever they can find it. That's what management does. Apparently, whoever voted it in didn't think it was the most important issue.
I think anyone who decides to apply to CAL should understand what the short-term tradeoffs are but should base their decision on their long-term goals. There's always risks, but anyone in the airline business is exposed at some point.

While I appreciate your opinion AC, it still doesn't answer the question as to why CAL would do this to supposedly "valued" employees. Sure, it can be done to further reduce costs. Great. Well, no other legacy carrier (or most LCCs that I know of) does this. Is it a future negotiating bargaining chip? Possibly. Regardless, it shows a complete lack of respect for the pilot group. New pilots don't make any money at CAL and, on top of that, they have to pay for supplemental insurance for themselves and their families if they don't already have it. Does CAL deny new corporate secretaries health insurance/benefits for their first 6 months? Where's the disconnect?

Hey, I think CAL is great (great fleet, great routes, great pilot group) except for this one major point. All I know is that DAL pays better and provides full benefits from day one despite its own recent economic issues. Read into it anyway you want, but I think it says a lot about how management views its own pilot group. If someone has the choice between these two great airlines, this point would have to be a consideration beyond just factoring where you want to live...

 

[BID]

Where was Delta a year ago? There is some proof how fast this industry can change.

You think Netjets always had a great contract?
You think CAL will always have a bad contract? (ok awful contract!)
If we do not merge, we will have to return to the West Coast. In the end, domicles come and go. ( satellite base soon?)
Age 65 will no only affect CAL, but other airlines as well, odds are in a more significant way.

We have FIRM orders for many jets to come. Domestic growth expected. 787 will do some amazing things for this company, rumor there are more to come.

Great people, great flying and awesome first class food!

Right now I smile when I see how fast I have been moving on the seniroity list, add a new contract and that smile will turn into a big grin.

anyway, good luck to you! Cuz I know it is not an easy choice

 

[ACWild]

While I appreciate your opinion AC, it still doesn't answer the question as to why CAL would do this to supposedly "valued" employees. Sure, it can be done to further reduce costs. Great. Well, no other legacy carrier (or most LCCs that I know of) does this. Is it a future negotiating bargaining chip? Possibly. Regardless, it shows a complete lack of respect for the pilot group. New pilots don't make any money at CAL and, on top of that, they have to pay for supplemental insurance for themselves and their families if they don't already have it. Does CAL deny new corporate secretaries health insurance/benefits for their first 6 months? Where's the disconnect?

Hey, I think CAL is great (great fleet, great routes, great pilot group) except for this one major point. All I know is that DAL pays better and provides full benefits from day one despite its own recent economic issues. Read into it anyway you want, but I think it says a lot about how management views its own pilot group. If someone has the choice between these two great airlines, this point would have to be a consideration beyond just factoring where you want to live...

Believe me, I don't defend that policy. As far as how management views their employees though, it really depends on who's there at the moment. Leaders and cultures can change at any moment.
I'm not going to say whether someone should choose one airline or the other. That's a personal decision with too many factors. Although I'm happy with my choice, that's just me.
I think with most union/management relations, neither side is going to give something for free. Management will try to get the most money that they can. It's their job to and you can't view them as our friends. Nothing personal, just business. As pilots, we try to get the most that we can and many times there are tradeoffs to vote upon. I suspect that this issue is one of them and whoever voted felt other matters were more important. Again, jmho.

 

[BID]

Regarding the no health insurance for six months, it is a true embarrassment.

Remember though, CAL has gone thru two BK's, Maybe these guys were scared there would be a third? Have you forgotten how adamant Delta was to get more scope relief? BK is rough, you can lose so much. This is just my personal thought on the issue.

We still have a good scope clause, 12.75 % B fund starting in June, although the pension is frozen, guys are at least still getting their lump sums. I will tell you this however, this pilot group is changing, and many new faces will be here to vote on the next contract.

IMHO, it will always be management vs labor.

 

[ClubORD]

"Maybe Gen Lee does enjoy his job, is that so bad? You love CAL so much you go out on Military leave when you can. Looks like you chose Iraq over EWR. Good choice."

Unbelievable that someone can be this ignorant.

Thank you Scrapdog and the others serving in the armed services for your sacrifices and for defending our country. Have a safe and happy Memorial Day weekend with your families.