Reality for Delta Helps Jetblue

[elag777]

Ya know whats sad? (You gave us kudos for putting up a fight - cool.) We were running FL and the East Coast before JB even existed...and mgmt pissed it all away. People like your product. They liked Song too...and look what Delta Mgmt did to that.

I hear that,nothing mgt does seems to make a lot of sense, Song is a good product and I wish the DAL guys the best :beer: .

 

[MercuryPilot]

I cant believe I just read this - from an airline pilot, no doubt. I have to explain time and time again, to my friends not in the industry that although I only went to work for 3 days, I actually spent 40 hours between flying, preflights, postlfights running to other planes, etc. So I worked the same work we they did - CRAMMED into 3 days. Very few folks in America would work 16 hour days.

Boo Hoo. Your not that important. If it's too much work, do something else where you're better compensated and don't have to work so much.

Plenty of people work 16 hour days - doctors, lawyers, etc. Come to think of it, my wife staying home w/the kids while I'm on a trip works 16 hour days.

 

[FurloughedTwice]

Jetblue finally has some relief from unfair market forces as Delta who loses billion and billions of dollars cuts back on Florida service. It seems the battle has been won by Jetblue at a cost. Jetblue nows faces a profit for 2006 due to the fact they can now charge fair prices to Florida. Passengers days of flying south for pennies are thankfully over. Congress needs to review the bankruptcy laws that enable companies that are dying or close to dead languish and create an unhealthy business atmoshphere to compete.

I hope you are just trying to stir the pot and you don't really believe this?

 

[jbvt]

I hope you are just trying to stir the pot and you don't really believe this?

Believe every word of it.

 

[FDJ2]

Believe every word of it.

Well it may only be a temporary seasonal cut in capacity.

Reuters:

"Delta said the cuts were capacity adjustments to seasonal demand changes and not permanent. "The schedule changes simply reflect a seasonal pull down in capacity for May, which is one of the lowest demand periods to Florida," said Delta spokesman John Kennedy. "

FWIW, Delta still plans on integrating the Song fleet into mainline and doubling the number of aircraft configured for and providing Song service to approximately 100 757s.

The overall domestic capacity will most likely decrease at DAL as the domestic wide bodied fleet is brought into international service. As Song is brought back into the mainline and expanded we'll have to see how the fleet is deployed. Stay tuned.

 

[fifty30retard]

Believe every word of it.

Come on bro. Unfair? Life isn't fair. Didn't your dad tell you that?

 

[shon7]

furloughed dude:

first of all...congrats for leaving b6...or should i say congrats to b6?

now let me see, would you have liked to get on with SWA when they were only 6 years old? Were they making industry "leading" wages then? where would you be if you got on with SWA during their first 5-6 years and were retiring these days? hmmmmm...probably pretty good i would imagine.

do you really think that b6 will get away with emb 190 pay rates IF they can make a profit? if you do, then your parents should demand a refund for the money they spent on your college education. business management 101! you went to college...right?

b6 has lots of problems...growing problems to be specific. one thing is for certain...they offer the best product around, and if/when the yield environment ever improves, there stock and all the cspp'ss that you mention will do just fine...don't you worry!

-- Amen

 

[Skank]

Elag,

I left after they announced the 190 rates, or rather sent a DHL package to us which informed us of the rates...

I knew then it was time to split. The job has certainly become much less desirable, with zero profit sharing, worthless stock options, and CRJ rates for a 100 seat aircraft. Not to mention ever increasing health care costs.

I wonder how many people are losing their butts on CSPP (do you really think the rampers/flight attendants, etc, unload their stock at 15%?) This is sounding more and more like People Express.

You've moved on. Good for you, so why are you even bothering with this? I haven't given you any thought at all. Sayonara!

 

[RJHagy]

Jetblue finally has some relief from unfair market forces as Delta who loses billion and billions of dollars cuts back on Florida service. It seems the battle has been won by Jetblue at a cost. Jetblue nows faces a profit for 2006 due to the fact they can now charge fair prices to Florida. Passengers days of flying south for pennies are thankfully over. Congress needs to review the bankruptcy laws that enable companies that are dying or close to dead languish and create an unhealthy business atmoshphere to compete.

Isn't it interesting when the LCC complain about "unfair market forces." What do you call it when numerous cities subsidize LCC and not legacy carriers. For example, SRQ in an effort to entice a LCC to enter it's market and compete with Delta and US Air, gave Air Tran $4 million (of which a portion was federal tax $$), plus other benefits not provided Delta or US Air, if it agreed to provide competition in its market against Delta. How is that fair? It's very easy to come in and slash prices to bus-fare levels when the city provides $$ to offset what would otherwise be a certain loss.

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Isn't it interesting when the LCC complain about "unfair market forces." What do you call it when numerous cities subsidize LCC and not legacy carriers. For example, SRQ in an effort to entice a LCC to enter it's market and compete with Delta and US Air, gave Air Tran $4 million (of which a portion was federal tax $$), plus other benefits not provided Delta or US Air, if it agreed to provide competition in its market against Delta. How is that a fair? It's very easy to come in and slash prices to bus fare levels when the city provides $$ to offset what would otherwise be a certain loss.

Market forces have never been fair; it's always survival of the fittest. It wasn't so long ago when the legacy carriers would use predatory pricing to kill an upstart. We don't have to look too far back...remember Legend in TX? AA went in with twice the frequency and gave the seats away to kill off any competition. That strategy has been used many times. Business is business, company will do what ever it takes to survive, most often times at the expense of its employees. We pilots have to stick together no matter who we fly for because many of us have been with the "commuters, cargo, legacy, corporate..."

 

[pipejockey]

Plenty of people work 16 hour days - doctors, lawyers, etc. Come to think of it, my wife staying home w/the kids while I'm on a trip works 16 hour days.

Whats with all this "average people work 16 hour days and would love to ONLY work 16 days a month" talk? The average American works mon thru fri, thats 20 days a month. So we are talking about an extra 4 days off for your 16 day a month pilot. Well come on! Don't you think spending about half of your life in a 2 bit hotel away from your family is deserving of that extra 4 days off? And besides, where are you getting 16 days a month anyway? Most pilots I know are not putting in as little as 16 days. 18 to 20 seems to be the average?

 

[buttercup]

Jetblue finally has some relief from unfair market forces as Delta who loses billion and billions of dollars cuts back on Florida service. It seems the battle has been won by Jetblue at a cost. Jetblue nows faces a profit for 2006 due to the fact they can now charge fair prices to Florida. Passengers days of flying south for pennies are thankfully over. Congress needs to review the bankruptcy laws that enable companies that are dying or close to dead languish and create an unhealthy business atmoshphere to compete.

Unfair business practices? The Port Authority of NY kisses JBLU asz and throws money at them along with gate space and you talk about unfair business practices?

 

[elag777]

Unfair business practices? The Port Authority of NY kisses JBLU asz and throws money at them along with gate space and you talk about unfair business practices?

Oh and that doesn't happen in Chicago with a certain just out of chap 13 carrier?

 

[RJHagy]

Market forces have never been fair; it's always survival of the fittest. It wasn't so long ago when the legacy carriers would use predatory pricing to kill an upstart. We don't have to look too far back...remember Legend in TX? AA went in with twice the frequency and gave the seats away to kill off any competition. That strategy has been used many times. Business is business, company will do what ever it takes to survive, most often times at the expense of its employees. We pilots have to stick together no matter who we fly for because many of us have been with the "commuters, cargo, legacy, corporate..."

What you say is correct. In a free market new entries are usually smaller, less financed, etc. The ones that make it rise to the levels of their larger competitors because they can offer a better product and better service at a competitive price. That's what a free market is all about.

That is not the same as unfair government subsidy--the government deciding who shall succeed and who should not. That is not a free market. In my opinion, this was done in order to bust the unions and bring down the labor costs in this country. Well, they have succeeded. The erosion of the middle class is now that much further along.

Those of you that think $60k/yr. for co-pilots and $100-$120k/yr. for captains is a great income for a positon of responsibility that our job carries--not to mention the education, aptitude, and training required; are selling this careeer way too short. With todays cost of living, that's not a lot of money. I have a 21 year old daughter that makes $250/night (including tips) in a restaurant as a part-time waitress while going to college. That's $60k/yr. I know another person that makes $300/night in tips alone (not including hourly wage) as a bartender ($72/yr. tax free just in tips). Is that where this career has evolved to?

In the past, we pilots were willing to put up with near-starvation wages (after paying thousands of $$ for training) as we gained experience through first flight instructing, charter flying, etc.-- similar to what doctors go through in their residency--because we knew there would be a payoff down the road. Now unfortunately, the payoff is gone.

One question I need to ask the LCC pilots is-- why are you satisfied with these wages? Why not try to do something about it? Could we not organize a national union for all airline pilots? Just a thought. We should all be working together to make this job what it used to be. Not fighting with each other over whose better--mine or yours.

 

[Deacon]

I agree and I work for B6. Competition is competition. You either adapt to increased competition or you shrivel up and die. Hats off to Delta for putting up one hell of a fight with a top notch product. It always bothers me when terms like irrational or unfair competition are used. There ain't nothing fair or rational about this business.

Agreed somewhat......DAL,AMR and CAL all were doing fine flying from NYC to FLA markets charging avg. $150 to $200 for a ticket..........

In comes JBLU and charges $79..now everybody matches and some increase frequency....but they ALL loose money on theses routes and some give in........Now JBLU's management realizes they have to raise ticket prices..thus raising the bar...

I guess this is how it works when one of these LCCs enter into a market

Realize DAL has a lot more problems than JBLU in NYC..