Reality for Delta Helps Jetblue

[pipejockey]

Plenty of people work 16 hour days - doctors, lawyers, etc. Come to think of it, my wife staying home w/the kids while I'm on a trip works 16 hour days.

Whats with all this "average people work 16 hour days and would love to ONLY work 16 days a month" talk? The average American works mon thru fri, thats 20 days a month. So we are talking about an extra 4 days off for your 16 day a month pilot. Well come on! Don't you think spending about half of your life in a 2 bit hotel away from your family is deserving of that extra 4 days off? And besides, where are you getting 16 days a month anyway? Most pilots I know are not putting in as little as 16 days. 18 to 20 seems to be the average?

 

[buttercup]

Jetblue finally has some relief from unfair market forces as Delta who loses billion and billions of dollars cuts back on Florida service. It seems the battle has been won by Jetblue at a cost. Jetblue nows faces a profit for 2006 due to the fact they can now charge fair prices to Florida. Passengers days of flying south for pennies are thankfully over. Congress needs to review the bankruptcy laws that enable companies that are dying or close to dead languish and create an unhealthy business atmoshphere to compete.

Unfair business practices? The Port Authority of NY kisses JBLU asz and throws money at them along with gate space and you talk about unfair business practices?

 

[elag777]

Unfair business practices? The Port Authority of NY kisses JBLU asz and throws money at them along with gate space and you talk about unfair business practices?

Oh and that doesn't happen in Chicago with a certain just out of chap 13 carrier?

 

[RJHagy]

Market forces have never been fair; it's always survival of the fittest. It wasn't so long ago when the legacy carriers would use predatory pricing to kill an upstart. We don't have to look too far back...remember Legend in TX? AA went in with twice the frequency and gave the seats away to kill off any competition. That strategy has been used many times. Business is business, company will do what ever it takes to survive, most often times at the expense of its employees. We pilots have to stick together no matter who we fly for because many of us have been with the "commuters, cargo, legacy, corporate..."

What you say is correct. In a free market new entries are usually smaller, less financed, etc. The ones that make it rise to the levels of their larger competitors because they can offer a better product and better service at a competitive price. That's what a free market is all about.

That is not the same as unfair government subsidy--the government deciding who shall succeed and who should not. That is not a free market. In my opinion, this was done in order to bust the unions and bring down the labor costs in this country. Well, they have succeeded. The erosion of the middle class is now that much further along.

Those of you that think $60k/yr. for co-pilots and $100-$120k/yr. for captains is a great income for a positon of responsibility that our job carries--not to mention the education, aptitude, and training required; are selling this careeer way too short. With todays cost of living, that's not a lot of money. I have a 21 year old daughter that makes $250/night (including tips) in a restaurant as a part-time waitress while going to college. That's $60k/yr. I know another person that makes $300/night in tips alone (not including hourly wage) as a bartender ($72/yr. tax free just in tips). Is that where this career has evolved to?

In the past, we pilots were willing to put up with near-starvation wages (after paying thousands of $$ for training) as we gained experience through first flight instructing, charter flying, etc.-- similar to what doctors go through in their residency--because we knew there would be a payoff down the road. Now unfortunately, the payoff is gone.

One question I need to ask the LCC pilots is-- why are you satisfied with these wages? Why not try to do something about it? Could we not organize a national union for all airline pilots? Just a thought. We should all be working together to make this job what it used to be. Not fighting with each other over whose better--mine or yours.

 

[Deacon]

I agree and I work for B6. Competition is competition. You either adapt to increased competition or you shrivel up and die. Hats off to Delta for putting up one hell of a fight with a top notch product. It always bothers me when terms like irrational or unfair competition are used. There ain't nothing fair or rational about this business.

Agreed somewhat......DAL,AMR and CAL all were doing fine flying from NYC to FLA markets charging avg. $150 to $200 for a ticket..........

In comes JBLU and charges $79..now everybody matches and some increase frequency....but they ALL loose money on theses routes and some give in........Now JBLU's management realizes they have to raise ticket prices..thus raising the bar...

I guess this is how it works when one of these LCCs enter into a market

Realize DAL has a lot more problems than JBLU in NYC..

 

[MercuryPilot]

And besides, where are you getting 16 days a month anyway? Most pilots I know are not putting in as little as 16 days.

A 30 day month minus 14 days of work equals 16 days off. 17 days off some months. The 16 days off a month comes from Longhorn's post about his historical average days off. It helps if you read the entire thread before responding.

 

[pipejockey]

Sometimes the threads are too long to read all the way through. I am an airline pilot remember...I work 20 days a month!!

So longhorn thinks we only work 14 days a month?? What alternate world did he just arrive from. Is he a "slider"? I would like to slide in to that world!!

 

[Longhorn]

I was just referring to my schedule now. I worked 7+ years with 10 days off, 6 legs a day and 90 hours a month with a crappy schedule at a regional and flying cargo, and that was my assigned line. Once again, just pointing out the schedule now.

 

[sluminginpit]

Awesome, this is great! Here's what I predict to happen! Delta/Song will pull from FL and Jetblue will raise prices, then when this happens Delta will step back in at the higher price, then Jetblue will lower prices again and so will Delta. The problems in this indusrty are the unrealistic ticket prices charged by ALL airlines. Airline tickets are one of the only items in this world that are cheaper today than they were 25 years ago.

The LCC are doing well today, but get real guys, if the indusrty had'nt tanked where would they be. Jetblue and Airtran don't provide anything that has'nt been there before. They had deffered payments, low senority regarding wages on their pay scale and government help up the butt. What profit would all legacy carriers make if their highest pilot was only there 5 years.

I actually think Jetblue was never suppose to be in business this long. Their plan was to start up in JFK, be a pain in the butt and get bought. Then 9/11 happens and wham now what.

No one knows whats going to happen! Yeah I'm mad that my career is stalled, but I still make more money than the average guy. If I quit I would make less, so I keep going. I don't wish harm to any airline, because that would harm other humans and why would any of us want that! Life is hard, thats what makes it interesting, if it were easy and fair what fun would that be.

Good luck to all, but if I were at Jetblue I would keep my resume current :0!

 

[PulluP]

"The LCC are doing well today, but get real guys, if the indusrty had'nt tanked where would they be. Jetblue and Airtran don't provide anything that has'nt been there before. They had deffered payments, low senority regarding wages on their pay scale and government help up the butt."

We've all heard the saying 'Southwest, the Darling of the airlines'.
An American jumpseater yesterday told us the 'top 5 bathroom stall quotes in JFK'...here are the top 2:

'wetPoo, the Diarrhea of the airlines'

and

'Why is AirTran painting their planes white?'
'Answer, to more resemble their namesake, Air(white)Trash'