Re-Dispatched in flight

[ksu_aviator]

I've heard from several operators that we cannot change our destination in flight unless there is an emergency or continuing to the destination would cause an emergency. I can't, however, seem to find any reference to that. Does anyone know where that interpretation came from?

 

[ultrarunner]

So that means you don't do diverts due to weather, or other issues??

Of course you can change your destination. You simply need to comply with the flight-reporting requirements contained in your GOM.

 

[ksu_aviator]

So that means you don't do diverts due to weather, or other issues??

Of course you can change your destination. You simply need to comply with the flight-reporting requirements contained in your GOM.

No. Diverting is different than redispatching. Diverting is fine. What I'm talking about is departing knowing you may change your destination for operational reasons. I.e. filing to Wilmington so you can ask Philly if you can land there because of ground stops or taking off with a fuel stop in mind but continuing to your destination when the fuel burn allows. Things like that.

 

[DUATS]

It's an operational control question. If a person with operational control approves the plan, it is OK. So if you are heading to Milwaukee and your DO sends a message to go to Oshkosh instead, you can go to Oshkosh. If you file to the airport with an IFR approach, planning to cancel and land at the nearby VFR only airport if possible, that's OK too - as long as the person with operational control knows about it. A PIC who has operational control can make the same decision. Any PIC can decide to divert for weather, mechanical, fuel, etc - but most comply with GOM reporting requirements to inform the person with operational control.

 

[ultrarunner]

No. Diverting is different than redispatching.........

Don't confuse a change in itinerary with 're-dispatching'.

Non-scheduled 135 flights are not dispatched, released, or re-released to a different destination. That's a 121 thing.

 

[ksu_aviator]

It's an operational control question. If a person with operational control approves the plan, it is OK. So if you are heading to Milwaukee and your DO sends a message to go to Oshkosh instead, you can go to Oshkosh. If you file to the airport with an IFR approach, planning to cancel and land at the nearby VFR only airport if possible, that's OK too - as long as the person with operational control knows about it. A PIC who has operational control can make the same decision. Any PIC can decide to divert for weather, mechanical, fuel, etc - but most comply with GOM reporting requirements to inform the person with operational control.

I understand, and all that is fine. But I'm talking about a very specific scenario where you depart with the intention of redispatching in flight.

We could get into the problems with diverting on request when you talk about weather reports, NOTAMs, destination airport annalysis and the like for the scenario you gave above. But that is a different discussion for a different day.

 

[ultrarunner]

I understand, and all that is fine. But I'm talking about a very specific scenario where you depart with the intention of redispatching in flight....

It's NOT a re-dispatch.

You simply depart and change your destination while enroute, then comply with the flight reporting requirements as previously mentioned.

 

[cl300dave]

Here is the information you are looking for it goes into detail and references the FAR's concerning the requirments specified in §§121.639 through 121.647

121.631 Original dispatch or flight release, redispatch or amendment of dispatch or flight release.
(a) A certificate holder may specify any regular, provisional, or refueling airport, authorized for the type of aircraft, as a destination for the purpose of original dispatch or release.
(b) No person may allow a flight to continue to an airport to which it has been dispatched or released unless the weather conditions at an alternate airport that was specified in the dispatch or flight release are forecast to be at or above the alternate minimums specified in the operations specifications for that airport at the time the aircraft would arrive at the alternate airport. However, the dispatch or flight release may be amended en route to include any alternate airport that is within the fuel range of the aircraft as specified in §§121.639 through 121.647.

 

[100-1/2]

All the time...

Depart for one (secondary) airport that is currently/forecast meeting minimum weather requirements permitting departure, knowing full well, weather conditions at the second (primary) airport will improve and be higher than minimums while enroute.

This is a crucial strategy for meeting schedules and adapting to un/scheduled outages of navigational aids required for lowest DH/MDA of a given airport during seasonal transition periods like spring and fall near larger bodies of water.

It is also a clever manipulation of Minimum Fuel Requirements where distance and payloads may be a flight planning concern.

However, like that previously stated, only those listed in GOM with operational control or dispatch authority can "dispatch/release" a flight unless an alternative flight locating procedure is approved by the CHDO.

You are not absolved of the All Available Information for intended use airports requirement as well. Huge 'gotcha' for the supreme prick of all pricks Ramp Check at the Secondary Airport.

100-1/2

 

[satpak77]

maybe I am ignorant or have not noticed but lately (last year or so) ATC is asking "state reason for change" whenever we (Part 91 operator) change our destination. Many times the owner gets a last minute call or blackberry and asks us to change in flight.

Anyone else getting this

 

[sinkrate]

I've heard from several operators that we cannot change our destination in flight unless there is an emergency or continuing to the destination would cause an emergency. I can't, however, seem to find any reference to that. Does anyone know where that interpretation came from?

121 and 135 regs essentially prohibit changing destinations enroute. Typically you may divert if and only if some circumstance prevents you from landing at your originally filed destination. Note that when you divert ATC will always ask for the reason. ATC then forwards that report to the Certificate holders Principle Operating Inspector. The POI then compares ATC's report to your report explaining the divert.

That being said the Certificate holder may apply for OPS SPECS that allow 'redispatch' in flight. This is specific authorization that permits changing destinations enroute. There are a number of limitations and operational requirements that come with that ops spec. I don't know of any domestic carriers that use it. Most flag carriers will have it in their ops specs.

Part 91 operations into small airports with no approaches do something similar to this all the time. In order to avoid filing an alternate in VFR weather they will file to the closest airport with approaches. Once they have the actual destination airport made they will cancel IFR and continue under VFR rules. FAR wise this is completely different from changing IFR destinations. After their initial inquiry ATC will sometimes work them IFR to their final destination.

Several of the other suggestions in this thread are common 'work arounds' of regs that require your destination to be above minimums at your ETA. These rationalizations are frequently used. As one post noted though if the FAA looks at it closely you may get violated. If it looks like you did this because your AC didn't have the fuel range for an alternate or your destination was forecast below minimums you will have a lot of explaining to do. As with all things FAA, enforcement of this varies widely from FSDO to FSDO.

 

[pilotyip]

I understand, and all that is fine. But I'm talking about a very specific scenario where you depart with the intention of redispatching in flight.

We could get into the problems with diverting on request when you talk about weather reports, NOTAMs, destination airport annalysis and the like for the scenario you gave above. But that is a different discussion for a different day.

On flights of over 6 hours you have to be re-dispatched in order to finish the trip. We used do something like that 30 years ago, does it still go that way?

 

[100-1/2]

Sinkrate,

You are not bleeding the SDR requirement with Divert as an issue? Under FAR 135?

There is no 135 reg preventing a change of destination while enroute. "Stock" Ops Specs make no restriction either. As for ATC request for reason for change in destination....

"operational necessity"

100-1/2

 

[Morettis]

There's no such thing as "dispatching" a 135 flight, and there's nothing saying you can't change destinations in the air. As long as someone with operational control knows your plan, thats all that matters.

Whenever they've asked why are you diverting, I've told them "Because my destination changed", they shut up, and I go about the rest of my day.

 

[sinkrate]

For 'on demand' operations if you are changing destinations because the 'boss' has a change of plans that is one thing. As long as you have the required weather, notams and fuel on board at the time of the change it won't draw much attention.

If you are changing destinations to circumvent the regs requiring your destination forecast to be above minimums at your ETA or to avoid carrying the FAR required alternate fuel it is a different story. Enforcement of that varies widely from FSDO to FSDO. Like most things FAR infractions are rarely caught - but when they are it can be a big problem.

For scheduled operations it better be in your OPS SPECS.

Many international flights use 'redispatch' every flight to reduce the required fuel. There is a least one RJ operator using it to increase payload on four hour legs. It is a lot of extra work for the dispatchers.

 

[dispatchguy]

It is a lot of extra work for the dispatchers.

We run an additional flight plan when you are enroute to calculate the true redispatch fuel required and watch a few additional airports. I wouldnt call it a lot.

Granted, we cant try and find the end of the internet like on a straight dispatch - but its not too bad

For a 121 Flag operation, we cant truly redispatch unless you have OpSpecs B044. In 121 domestic at my freight airline, we change destination all the time, we call it "getting rerouted"