Ramp check

[Wang Chung]

I I've heard stories about other cargo guys getting ramped at 3:00am but I find it hard to believe that they will get out of bed for that.

Heh, when we were flying the U.S. Mail feeder trash run into the old Mail hub at IND, they were out on the ramp ALL the time in the middle of the night!

Outside of flying freight, I was ramped once and it caught me off guard to say the least. I was flying a survey flight with a camera operator in a 206 and we needed to land for a minute between surveys to change a film magazine (literally a 1 minute stop on the ground, not including a bathroom break).

At the end of our first flight, we were a few miles from a small, uncontrolled podunk airport in the middle of nowhere and I overflew it in preparation to land. It was a complete ghost town down there - old, rundown wooden t-hangers, an old-school fuel pump on the cracked, worn out ramp, and a little FBO building that almost looked abandoned. Didn't see or hear any signs of life at all. On downwind, my camera operator commented that he thought there wasn't even a Coke machine down there.

Sure enough, right after I shut down the engine on the ramp 2 dudes wearing a bunch of I.D. badges emerged from the ramshackle building and walked out to us. Behind them, parked alongside the building was one of those little non-descript government cars....talk about crappy timing.

They were pretty cool, actually. They were from our local FSDO and I wasn't sure what they were doing there, but I guessed that they were checking out the FBO/maintenance shop that seemed to reside in the building. They asked for certificates, looked in the plane and asked a few questions about some of our equipments and modifications. One of them was an avionics inspector, and he didn't like the fact that our headliner was missing but after a few minutes of questions and small-talk we were on our way. But our company got a letter from the FSDO a few weeks later about fixing the headliner, which we took care of because it was time for a new interior anyway.

 

[Lead Sled]

My personal record is 3 ramp checks in one day...

Back in the mid-80's when the FAA's notorious NASIP Team was making their rounds, they showed up on our ramp. I was a fixed-wing pilot for LifeFlight and they wanted to go through all of our paperwork, manuals, documents, records, etc. Not a problem, everything was in order. While they were there, we received a call and they (two inspectors - one with a notepad and a camera, the other with a tape recorder) hovered over me as I flight planned and preflighted the MU-2. Because they were there, I pulled the POH out of the airplane and performed a "by the book" preflight. What normally would take just a few minutes, ended up taking nearly an hour. The medical team was very irate - not at me, but at the Feds. There was absolutely no reason for the rectal examination that we were being subjected to. This went on for a couple of days, finally our Hospital's attornies got a hold of one of our Senators who was able to call off the dogs.

'Sled

 

[501261]

now thats more along the lines of what im talking about. in almost 5 years of flying 135 ive gotten hit about a dozen times...

Guess what? If you get "hit" that often, the company you (or you) are working for might be "under observation."

I worked for a company that was "under observation" once, it certainly taught me to be "proficient" at my paperwork. I got ramped 5 times in a 4 week period (and I was one of 30 pilots), I survived unscathed, but the company eventually got hit with a $480,000 fine that essentially put it out of business.

Since leaving that company, I have been ramped once in the last 7 years, a simple courtesy (license, medical, thanks) check.

Realistically, there's nothing to be scared of during a ramp check unless you've done something to attract attention.

 

[Pilot124]

I got ramped by the girl in my avtar.

 

[NoahWerka]

As explained to me by an FAA Inspector: The Feds schedule ramp inspections for the next year in Dec. by FISDO offices. Even the random ones. They are generally "too busy" until late October to do them, so the last 2 1/2 months of the year is when they really get started. That is when most of their ramp checks get done.
Just to complete the schedule, you will find GA Inspectors doing 121 or 135 checks and vice versa, even though they have no idea what is involved in those particular operations. Had a GA Inspercto ride with me on a "line check" scheduled for a 121 operation. Didn't matter who the carrier was or where they were going, he just had to do it to complete the schedule. BSed for an hour about why the FAA would send someone to check something they had no knowledge of how it worked. Amazing!

 

[wingnutt]

Guess what? If you get "hit" that often, the company you (or you) are working for might be "under observation."

...nope, this was for 3 different companies, in 6 different types of aircraft, in 5 different parts of the country...just lucky i guess

 

[Rick1128]

8400.10

First of all FAA inspectors can not keep your certificate. If you surrender your certificate there are forms you must fill out prior to doing so. Some inspectors used to pull that stunt and it blew up in there faces.

There are only limited things that an inspector can do dring a ramp check. They are listed in Order 8400.10, 8100.10 and 8300.10 depending on what type of ramp check is being done.

They are not allowed to delay the flight. That is a major NO NO.

I have had many ramps during my career. My advise is be polite, get their card, write down their name(s), their fsdo, what they did and asked. Do it openly. If they take offense. Tough. They do it themselves. It is called a memo for record. And it has standing in court. And if they do a route check, get the inspector to give you an 8410 on it.

 

[English]

Great info and advice, Rick1128.

 

[Bandit60]

I have been ramped checked 5 times. All of these were in the early 90's. The one that stands out the most is the time I was ramped check right after I landed at a uncontrolled field that had an ILS. The weather was IMC and before I could get the passengers off the airplane, the FAA inspector was showing his badge. He did this in front of my passengers and made it look like I did something illegal.

The first thing the inspector asked me was if I was operating under 135 or 91. I told him we were 91. He was busting 135 operators that were shooting the approach without weather reporting at the airport. As soon as he started to talk to me, I took out a piece of paper and asked for his name and number. I proceeded to write down everything he asked me. I was never rude or acted pissed off, but with me writing things down he wasnt going to screw with me. After about 5 min he said thanks and walked away.

I have found that being pleasant and writing down everything you can about the ramp check tends to lead to less hassel from the Feds.

 

[rubberducky]

In a four month span I was ramped BY THE SAME INSPECTOR 3 times. I finally asked him if I was under some kind of "spotlight". He said that it was completely coincidence...I called the union anyway.

 

[LR60BOY]

Back about 18 months ago I was in Midland TX in a King Air 300, the pax were deplaning as I followed. As soon as I rounded the tail heading for the FBO here comes a guy with about 6 pounds of ID hanging around his neck. He asked if we were 91 or 135, my response, "91 sir". His response, "thank you, have a good day". End of story.

 

[Gatorman]

Well, as a mechanic, I never thought that I'd get checked, but I did. Fortunately, the company I was working was on good terms with the fed.
We were going through the process of getting a CL600 on the company's 135 cert. and while we were waiting for the rest of the crew to show up, Uncle Fed asked me for my license!
I started shaking right there.
I still have the original copy of my A&P in my wallet and I handed it to him, it was 13 years old! He asked if he could make a copy of it and I said "Sure, go ahead." He made the copy, handed it back and I explained to him that though the address was not correct, I did, in fact, have my current address updated via the FAA website. He seemed ok with that and explained that he just wanted a copy for the 135's certificate records.
After that, I have become an inspector for the company and talked to Uncle Fed often.

By the way, the plane made it on cert. with zero problems.

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

A couple of years ago, I left PDK an hour and a half late because my courier couldn't make it to the airport due to a wreck on the interstate. When I arrived at CHA, one of my fellow pilots had my package I would normally pick up. He was being ramped and another couple of inspectors were hanging around. I grabbed my bag, stepped on my scales and threw the bag in my cargo compartment. As I was closing the door, one of the inspectors asked, "Are you in a hurry?" I informed him that i was running 1 1/2 hours late. He said, "Real quick then--we are here doing random checks. I know you're in a hurry, you don't have to show it to me but what is your pilot certificate number?" I looked at him and said, "I'm not REALLY a pilot. I just stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night." He got a good laugh--I told him my number, shook hands and parted ways.

These guys have to make contact with so many pilots each year. Most of them enjoy getting out of the office and are not out to get you.

That was the only time I've been ramped since 1987.

 

[transpac]

First of all FAA inspectors can not keep your certificate. If you surrender your certificate there are forms you must fill out prior to doing so. Some inspectors used to pull that stunt and it blew up in there faces.

There are only limited things that an inspector can do dring a ramp check. They are listed in Order 8400.10, 8100.10 and 8300.10 depending on what type of ramp check is being done.

They are not allowed to delay the flight. That is a major NO NO.

I have had many ramps during my career. My advise is be polite, get their card, write down their name(s), their fsdo, what they did and asked. Do it openly. If they take offense. Tough. They do it themselves. It is called a memo for record. And it has standing in court. And if they do a route check, get the inspector to give you an 8410 on it.

Inspectors are by law (FAA Act) permitted to inspect anywhere and at any time. It's FAA policy not to unnessessarily delay a flight, but they can and will do so if they find it neccessary.

FAA Inspectors can inspect any facet of an operation during a ramp check. Internal FAA policy lists the required items, but nothing prevents an Inspector from inspecting other items. This actually happens a lot. An individual Inspector can be held accountable if he/she delays a flight without good cause.

I seriously doubt if there's ever been a case that a FAA Inspector kept a certificate that was presented for inspection. I've heard it happened in the old days of the CAA, but it doesn't happen now. In any event, a certificate can't be suspended or revoked without lots of things happening that are beyond the control of individual Inspectors. The voluntary surrender of a certificate is a complex event that involves precise language in a surrender letter that is signed by all concerned, witessed by a third party, and concurred with up front by the Regional Counsel. Any Inspector who tried to fake a voluntarily surrender would be risking a lot more than his or her career.

FAA inspection forms are for internal use. While some Inspectors might be willing to make a copy of a completed form for the operator, he/she is under no obligation to do so, and most would decline. Much of the information collected at the inspection site is not verified until later.

 

[ultrarunner]

holy crap, where do y'all fly (or not fly) that you never get ramped?

Got ramped last April in Montego Bay, by a former Canadien Air Transport inspector (Ret.) working for the Jamaican authorities. Was prior to departure. Just the usual stuff. Nice guy.

But I have to admit, not a place I expected to be ramped at.

 

[AA717driver]

I was three months into my first commuter job in DBQ. My initial training was quick and dirty and done in Tennessee(the owner wouldn't even let us land until we had 100 hours--crazy!) but it was turbine airline time.

I got a call from a Fed who wanted to have a beer and talk about my training. Sure, no problem. I met him at his hotel and the bar was closed so we went up to his room(and there I was thinking I had a Penthouse forum story on my hands... ). We just shot the ***t and that was all.

A few days later, I got a call from the POI in Tennessee. He said we were being investigated and I may get violated based on "the report you gave". At that point, I tore him a new ***hole and informed him of the pretenses under which I talked to the Fed in DBQ.

The company got its certificate temporarily suspended and we all got retrained but I didn't hear a word from the Feds on my situation. I always hoped to run into the Fed that hosed me again but never did. He was from the DSM office.TC

 

[sky37d]

My favorite story about the FAA comes from someone who works from them (computer operations or something like that). She was someplace, decided she'd rent a plane from the local airport. She called up, asked to rent a plane. Need a checkout, she's cool with that. She shows up, and one of the first things she asks for is maintenance logs. They give her some grief about that, and she says "I'm with the FAA and I KNOW you have to provide them". Boy, the whole attitude changed INSTANTLY. She laughs about it, today, but for that place, at that time, they were not laughing.

 

[nosehair]

Me: I'm not really concerned. I'm not here to take an oral for our operation ... if you would like, maybe our POI could invite you to my next FAR 135.293(a)(b) oral examination. Otherwise, unless there's a problem with the certificates and documents you are holding, please return them to me so that I may get on with my work.

FAA Inspector: Maybe I need to proceed with a demonstration of competency, or emergency revocation.

Me: Proceed as you see fit. But for now, please return my documents and step aside.



TransMach

...and that's the kind of smart-mouth attitude we don't need on either side of the conversation.

"Be very,very nice to everyone you meet."

 

[FN FAL]

My best ramping occured at xyz airport when I pulled up to the ramp with my "The World On Time" caravan...or TWOT for short.

I had just flipped off the master and was letting the pilot gantry down, when a guy in a suit appeared from around the corner of the hangar. I figured it was a fsdo guy or some whuffo looking for a place to tie down his mooney, but all questions were answered when he reached into his pants and pulled out his big 14 inch

wallet with his FAA credentials. I asked him if he wanted to see my credentials and he said no...pointed to the company logo on the side of the plane and said..."you guys run a good show, I want to know where the pilot of THAT plane is?" as he pointed to the tub of bolts that the UPS contractors fly.

Hahaha...it's always a nice feeling when even FSDO thinks your company is good!

 

[DesertFalcon]

Has anyone ever been ramp checked? So much of training is to abide by the rules, and for good reason, but when (besides accident/incident situations) do we pilots ever need to prove the legality of our flights? I'm just looking for common situations and/or stories. Interesting stories are more fun to read. I've only heard that it usually starts like this: "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you."

Yes, I have been ramp checked many times. The LAS FSDO guys like to fly to get to the Grand Canyon. I used to fly an F-27, under Part 121, they rode jumpseat several times per quarter.