Ramp check do's And don'ts

[Aviator]

What are your rights in the event that this should happen? What is the best way to protect yourself?

 

[LA Confidential]

Have your $hit together, be nice and civil and flow with the program you’ll have nothing to worry about.

 

[katanabob]

This reminds me of a superb educational program by none other than Chris Rock. I think this could be applied here as well.
"How Not to Get Your Ass Kicked by the Police"
http://www.punchbaby.com/media/laters/clips/TV/chrisrock.asf

 

[501261]

Rights....ha, you have none! Flying is a privelege, not a right, so you don't have a lot of "rights."

Hopefully, the ramp check is only a formality and you just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. In that case just be polite, and do what the inspector says, he'll want to see your licence and medical, want to know the aircraft's inspection status and go on his merry way, looking for the next "victim" he can "help."

On the other hand if you are "under observation" you can expect anything.

Best advise to protect yourself is to have your paperwork in order!

Here's the Inspector's Handbook chapter on 91 ramp checks:

5. PROCEDURES.
A. PTRS. Open PTRS file.
B. Preinspection Activities.
(1) Review the office file on the operator to determine if any prior violations of the FAR, past complaints, or inspection reports exist.
(2) Note review findings and any areas of emphasis on the FAR Part 91 job aid.
C. Location of Inspection. Proceed to the airport where the ramp inspection will be conducted. Determine whether or not it is necessary to identify FAA presence to the airport operator or other operators on the airport. (Figure 56-4) Use the FAR Part 91 job aid to conduct the ramp inspection.
D. Inspect Airman Documents.
(1) Inspect airman certificates to determine appropriate ratings and limitations for the type of operations being conducted.
(2) Determine if certificates are genuine and legible. (See Chapter 1, Introduction to FAR Part 61 Related Tasks.)
(3) Inspect airman medical certificates to determine if they are current and the appropriate class. Check for a Statement of Demonstrated Ability, if required, on the medical certificate.
(4) If available, examine pilot logbooks (or other reliable records) to determine recency of experience and qualifications, for example -
(a) Biennial flight review
(b) Instrument proficiency check
(c) PIC proficiency check
(5) If applicable, inspect pilot Category II and/or Category III authorization letters for currency. (FAR 91.189)
(6) Note any discrepancies on the job aid.
E. Record Aircraft Information. Record the N-number, make and model, and whether leased or owned on the job aid. If the vehicle is an ultralight, see Chapter 66, Inspect an Ultralight Vehicle.
F. Inspect Aircraft. (Applies to all aircraft)
(1) Determine that the proper airworthiness certificate is displayed at the cabin or cockpit entrance. Note that it is legible to passengers and/or crew.
(2) Examine the registration certificate to ensure that it is issued for that specific aircraft. Determine that the N-number on the certificate matches the N-number on the aircraft. Check that the certificate is issued to the present owner of the aircraft.

{v2, p 56-5}

(3) Check the radio station license and note its expiration date. If it has expired, inform the operator of the pertinent FCC requirements.
(4) Determine that there is a current, approved Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) on board the aircraft.
(5) Determine if there is current weight and balance information in the aircraft by examining the AFM. Compare equipment listed on the weight and balance form to the actual equipment installed.
(6) If applicable, check the MEL to determine that it has:
(a) Been issued by N-number and serial number to the aircraft operator
(b) A Letter of Authorization from a district office; check deferred items for placards and dates (Refer to Chapter 58, Approve a Minimum Equipment list.)
(7) If a Letter of Deviation from FAR Part 125 has been issued, ensure that a true copy is in the aircraft.
(8) If the aircraft is leased, determine that a copy of the lease agreement or contract is being carried in the aircraft. Note the expiration date on the lease and determine if the lease is still valid.
(9) If applicable, determine that copies of the approved Category II or Category III authorization and manual are in the aircraft.
(a) Review the Category II/III authorization and provisions.
(b) Check that the aircraft make, model, and N-number is listed.
(c) Consider any instrument, airport, or weather requirements listed there or in the manual.
(10) If the aircraft operates under a letter of authorization for (NAT)(MNPS) North Atlantic Minimum Navigation Performance Specification airspace, determine if the letter is carried on board the aircraft.
(11) Determine if pertinent and current aeronautical charts are available.
(12) Ask the operator what type of instrument operations are conducted, for example: ILS, DME, RNAV. Determine if the required radio and navigational equipment is installed for the specific operations conducted.
G. Inspect Aircraft.
(1) Determine the general airworthiness of the aircraft by inspecting the aircraft's exterior in a manner similar to a preflight inspection.
(2) Inspect seats and safety belts for installation and condition.
(3) If applicable, determine if a current VOR Equipment Check has been performed.
(4) Determine if an ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter) is installed. Check the expiration date of the battery.
(5) Determine that the aircraft identification plate exists and is secured to aircraft fuselage exterior. (FAR 45.11(a))
H. Inspection Items for Large and Turbine Powered Multiengine Airplanes Only. In addition to the items in Paragraphs E(1) through (12) and F(1) through (4), inspect the following items:
(1) Determine if the aircraft has an emergency checklist available to the flight crew.
(2) Determine if the aircraft has one engine inoperative climb performance data available to the flight crew.
(3) Determine if pertinent and current aeronautical charts are available.
(4) Determine if a flashlight having two D-sized cell batteries, or equivalent, is accessible from the pilot station and in good working order.
(5) If the operator conducts overwater operations, determine that the required radio equipment is installed (FAR 91.511).
(6) For transport category aircraft only, have the operator demonstrate that the aural speed warning device is in operating condition.
(7) Have the operator activate the smoking and safety belt signs. Determine if they are in operable condition. Check operation from the cockpit and the cabin. If applicable, at this time conduct the altitude alerting system or device check.
(8) Note whether the operator uses passenger briefing cards to supplement oral briefings. If so, inspect the cards for location and correct information (FAR 91.519).

{v2, p 56-6}

(9) Determine if appropriate emergency equipment is on board the aircraft (FAR 91.513).
(10) If the operator conducts overwater operations, inspect the following survival equipment for installation and condition:
(a) Life preservers with approved survivor locator light (for each occupant)
(b) Liferafts with approved survivor locator light (amount should accommodate the number of occupants of the aircraft)
(c) Pyrotechnic signaling devices (for each liferaft)
(d) Emergency radio signaling device
(e) Lifeline
(f) Appropriately equipped survival kit
I. Inspection items for Turbojet Powered Civil Airplanes Only. In addition to the items in Paragraphs E(1) through (12), F(1) through (4), and Paragraph G(1) through (10), inspect the altitude alerting system or device for installation and operation. Conduct this test at the same time the smoking/safety belt sign and aural speed warning device test is accomplished.
J. Inspection Discrepancies. If a discrepancy is discovered during the inspection, enter it on the appropriate job aid in the remarks section.
(1) Inform the operator of the discrepancy. Advise the operator that if the aircraft is operated without correcting the discrepancy, he or she may be in violation of the FAR.
(2) If necessary, issue FAA Form 8620-1. (Figure 56-3)
(a) Attach the bottom card (buff) on the aircraft by the string. Place it so that the operator will easily see it.
(b) Return the top and middle sheet (both white) to the airworthiness unit.
K. Review Job Aid. Upon completion of the inspection, review the job aid for any suspected violations. If an enforcement investigation is necessary see Volume 2, Chapter 182 of this Handbook.
L. Conclude Inspection.
(1) Discuss any pertinent safety information with the pilots or operator.
(2) Return any documentation.
(3) Advise the pilot or operator of any upcoming accident prevention or other safety meetings.
(4) If no discrepancies were found, compliment the pilot or operator.
M. PTRS Report. Send a followup letter of correction (Figure 56-5) with a suspense date to remind a pilot or operator of noted discrepancies. Complete FAA Form 8000-36 in accordance with the PTRS field office manual. If the pilots or aircraft are not based in the inspector's district, forward a copy of the PTRS report and the job aid to the appropriate district office.
N. District Office File. File the job aids in accordance with normal office procedures.

 

[Aviator]

Hey katana.... that was pretty funny.

 

[flywithastick]

Rights....ha, you have none! Flying is a privelege, not a right, so you don't have a lot of "rights."

I hear what your saying 501. Unfortunately, in the eyes of the FAA (and too many citizens), flying has been defined as a priviledge. I don't care what act of congress gave the FAA their authority, that doesn't have anything to do with what's a right. Like gun ownership, it's regulated; but still a right.

It's just a word, but I think it makes a big difference.

As for the list, thanks. I'll save that one.

 

[Rick1128]

First of all, FAA Inspectors generally do not do Part 91 ramp checks. When they do, it usually happens for one of three reasons. First, they were conducting Part 135 ramp checks and had time to look you over. They have to keep their count up. Second, they saw something about your aircraft or what you were doing that caught their attention. Third, they have you under observation and suspect you or the owner of conducting illegal operations.

Under Part 135, anyway, you do have a couple of 'rights'. They can not delay you unnecessarily. And they can not interfere with the performance of your duties. And they are required to show you their ID's. Under 135 they have 4 types of inspections they can perform. Pilot Certificate, Aircraft records and documents, Aircraft inspection and one other I can not remember right off.

Over the years I have found the best way to deal with them is to say 'Hello' pleasently and ask to see their ID's. Then I record their names and what office they are out of. They can not stop you from doing this. Then I ask them which of the four inspections they are conducting. This boxes them in a little. They will always ask to see ilot certificate and medical, airworthiness and registration. While they are inspecting these, I complete my paperwork, if not already done. (Note: I have found that having and using a large envelope for trip paperwork, makes it easier to keep together and for some reason impresses the feds.) Answer their questions carefully as always. DO NOT allow them to be alone during any inspection they conduct on your aircraft. Sometimes I have had as many as four inspectors show up. And I have told them that I was 'overwhelmed' by the number of inspectors and could they thin out a little. Usually a couple will go away.

Sometimes they will issue you a mechanical report on something they found on the aircraft. That is one of the reasons you stick with them.

When I ramp check occurs, I always notify my operations that it is occuring. When I get home, I write and submit a trip report, listing the inspectors' names, what office, times the inspection started and ended, what was discussed and any action required. I also write a 'Memo for Record' for myself.

The best way to protect yourself is to have your paperwork togther, know your operations manual and aircraft manual, be familiar with the appropriate section in Form 8400.10 and smile. That is about all you can do about it.

If it is something, you have authority to do, and I have had inspectors tell me that they don't like how we were doing something that we had approval to do, I refer them to our FAA inspector. And tlet them fight it out. But I always call my inspector to give them a heads up.

 

[RJones]

I was ramped in CLE one night and asked to see the inspectors credentials and he refused...the ramp check was over and I shut the door on the plane and left. He later caught up with me in the lounge and showed me his stuff. I told him I'd be out in a minute after I finish my lunch. When I went out to find him he was gone.

RJ

 

[waka]

Then I ask them which of the four inspections they are conducting. This boxes them in a little.

Why is it necessary to make inspectors feel "boxed in"? First of all, anyone that feels boxed in would probably have some sort of defensive reaction. What if they answer "all four"?

In my limited experience, it seems that inspectors are mainly focusing on your organization, not so much as you as an individual.

For the most part, FAA inspectors are regular folks with common sense. They have no axe to grind. Sometimes I sense an "it is us versus them" attitude amongst pilots. This is completely unprofessional. Sure there are isolated horror stories but these are no more frequent than horror stories in any other field.

Sure, my blood pressure might jump a couple of points when I realize I'm about to get ramped. I'm not above that. However, we ought to be aware that we are all in this aviation thing together.

 

[flywithastick]

In my experience, when I went to the FAA with questions or with some certification process, they've been helpful. but it's totally clear to me that in a "ramp check" situation, they're looking for violations. I don't have direct experience working for the FAA, but am convinced without a doubt that finding problems is their driving objective in that situation.

It's just like a traffic stop. Unless the cops threaten to arrest you, refuse them permission to search your vehicle if asked. You're only exposing yourself to more risk of a problem with unlimited scrutiny/searching. I'm sure this is what Rick is suggesting.

 

[chperplt]

When you fly an old airplane such as the dinosaur Beech 1900s I fly, you get use to Mr. and Mrs. FAA. I get to shake hands with the best of them at LGA and BOS all the time. No one is ever hard to deal with, and they usually just come and go.

 

[501261]

Rick, been a while since I flew 135, but could that elusive 4th kind of investigation be check airman performance? I know the FAA has to occasionally observe check airman, could that be considered the 4th type of ramp check?

Good point about the FAA not being allowed to delay your departure for a 135 ramp check, has something to due with interfering with interstate commerce. However, if they have started a ramp check and find something wrong and you demand to depart, you better believe a Letter of Investigation will be arriving shortly!

Here's my experience with ramp checks. If you are getting a "random" ramp, the inspector is just their doing his job, he's been assigned to go out and "observe" an airport. When he's out there he needs to show his supervisor that he was actually out there, so they make a report out of every ramp check. That's why they want to see your license and A/C registration, so they can show the supervisor this is who they ramped. Hopefully, this will be the end of one of those ramp checks, according to the FAA handbook only about 5% of ramp checks should become an enforcement action. MOST inspectors in this case would rather NOT try to violate you since this only creates more paperwork for them to do when they get back to the office.

On the other hand if you are "under observation" the FAA is looking to find a violation. That's not hard to do; I'm sure given enough time I could find a violation on Air Force One! The only good thing about this kind of ramp check is that generally they are not normally going after the pilots; they're looking to bust the company.

 

[jetexas]

Just don't lie to 'em.
I know an ex-FAA inspector and he told me a story about a ramp check in the wee hours of the morning on a saturday.
He asked for the guys license and medical. The guy did not have a medical on him. The inspector said "so you don't have it on you, ok..Do you 'have' a medical??" The guy says "Oh yeah, but I left it at home". So the inspector checks up on this the next monday and the guy did not have a current medical on file, so he busted him. This ex-inspector told me "Yeah, so he did'nt have it with him, that's fine. I was'nt gonna bust him for that. It was the fact that he lied and then did not 'have' a medical. Even at that, if he would have just told me the truth I would have given him a verbal warning and told him to get a med. ASAP" So the guy got fined or suspended..something like that.

 

[Timebuilder]

Has anyone seen the video Ramp Check, available through Sporty's (I think) where you are advised to LEAVE as soon as possible?

 

[JediNein]

Howdy!
There is a document floating around the internet with an even more extensive listing of things for an inspector to look over when they are intent on busting someone or something.

With the door closed on the aircraft and no one around, red tags come from missing compass correction cards, anything widely incorrect (fairings on nosewheel and one main, gear door and belly damage), and previous knowledge.

Being the aircraft owner, aircraft operator, or mechanic make ramp checks fun. If you have the appropriate training, minor items can be repaired on the spot, in front of the inspector or send 'em to lunch and get it repaired.

Tips on surviving a ramp check (generic part 91 advice, your ops specs will vary)?

For your own safety, ask to see the inspector's identification.

Remember you are not required to open the door to your aircraft, but it's highly suspicious if you don't. It's a fine line. A student pilot or private pilot can usually get away with asking for his/her mechanic to be there for the inspection. A part 91 operation can request the ramp check to be done at a later time.

Get a PACE inspection on your own airplane. My flight school had a PACE inspection on one of our planes. All of our instructors, several students, and the FAA inspectors learned from the experience. The aircraft passed with flying colors.

Get to know your local FAA. They are our regulatory agency just as CALTRANS oversees the CA trucking industry.

Get to know your mechanics. They know which inspectors are the good ones and which are carpet stains. There is a difference between 50 years in the industry and 10.

Get to know which regulations your aircraft was certified under. C.A.R. 3 aircraft do not have to meet the requirements of F.A.R. 23 aircraft.

Work for a good outfit with decent equipment that will pass a ramp check on a typical day. Downtime means less or no profits. No profits means out of business.

If there is a problem that needs correcting and is not hazardous to a one-time flight, ask for a ferry permit to get back to home base for maintenance.

Tips on failing a ramp check?
Lie.
Be a jerk.
Play stupid.
Argue. (Arguing with a pilot/inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After awhile, you think the pig likes it.)
After the inspector points out a hazardous discrepancy on your aircraft, violate three regulations getting to the runup area and have a runway incursion before departing anyway. At least wait until the inspector has left before departing.

Hope this helps.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[Dieterly]

Must have been ramped around 20-30 times and never had any real problems. Actually it helps if you work for a roach operation, if they (FAA) ground the airplane at least it will get fixed before you are allowed to depart. Like some of the previous posters said, have your paper work in order, I would say that's about 75% of the check right here.

Here is also a hint for any freight dogs flyin on a Thursday night, before a long (holiday) weekend. Inspectors seemt to be out in full force so they don't have to be in the office on Friday, or Monday. In that case they get 4 days off to relax at home and hanging out with mother-im-law. At least 8 years ago this was pretty common in MIA, MCO or ATL.

 

[Rick1128]

Waka, If they say 'all four', they are opening themselves up to all sorts of problems. And not just from you. Their guidance allows them to choice the type of inspection to be conducted. Each inspection covers a lot of information. This does not preclude them from looking into something else if they see a problem. Generally when you ask that you are telling them, you are familiar with their handbook. That tends to make the inspection go a little bit easier and quicker.

261, The forth, I would lump into aircraft loading and servcing. The check airman observed ride is covered under a different section.

By boxing them in, all you are doing is getting them to commit to what they are looking for and what areas they will deal with.

Of course if they do find a machanical problem, it could be difficult to depart. And they do track maintenance slips they issue. However, there is a section on the form for airworthy or un-airworthy. Normally they will check one of those boxes. If they don't, I would use my best judgement. Keep a photo copy of the slip for your records.

261, you are correct that MOST inspectors don't like to file violations due to the amount of paperwork. But there are those who do. Just be careful. If you have you ducks in a row and have complete records, it is not unusual to beat the violation. As long as you were right. Unfortunately, when the FAA goes after a company, the employees also get it in the butt.

Waka, as for 'common sense', it sounds like you have not dealt with the FAA that much. Unfortunately, in today's legal enviroment, they tend to follow the regs right down the line, unless you can show them 'Letters of Interpretation' from legal otherwise. Many of the regs date back to the 50's and 60's and do not allow for the changes in technoligy. And some of them do have axes to grind. Yes they are few, but because it is difficult to discipline them for such conduct, they get promoted and become supervisors and trainers. And the problem continues. And one other point, we existed before they did, and the day we go away, they go away. Not the other way around.

chperplt, if you think a 1900 is an old dinosaur, think again, please. I'm admitting my age, but DC3's and 6's are much older and are still seen in the US skies, as working aircraft . And they get ramped regularly. And there are many jets that went out of production before or around the time the 1900 was introduced. DA20, B727, B707, B720, Hansa, Lear 23/24/25/28/29, DC8, DC9, etc. And they are still around. But any ratty looking aircraft will attract FAA attention.

 

[TXCAP4228]

What about a non commercial flight?

Most of the posts have been about 135 operations. I am not a commercial pilot and fly rental airplanes most of the time. Rick 1128 said in a previous post said that part 91's don't get ramp checked very often.

I guess I have a couple of questions about this, mainly about the side of it that relates to small bug smashers.

1) I guess in 4 years or so I have never been ramp checked. How often would a non-commercial light airplane be ramp checked?

2) In this case what would an inspector look for? If I smile and nod a lot and show my certificate and medical is that usually sufficient?

3) Is anything off-limits?

 

[Chunk]

A few more tips

Tips from Av. Law class @ ERAU I took a while back (General Aviation Law from the Practical Flying Series was the text used....a good one)

1. Never let them take your paperwork. You must show them, but DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES let them take posession, even to the point of holding it up for them to read, but not letting them touch.

2. Don't carry your logbook (or deny having it if it isn't in plain view). You aren't required to show it if you don't have it and you are asking for trouble if you do show it. They can ask you to bring it into the FSDO at a later date, but you'll have time to go over it with a fine tooth comb in the meanwhile....

3. Don't admit anything...cooperate but don't volunteer any extra info.

I'll go grab the book later and post more....

Chunk

 

[chperplt]

1. Never let them take your paperwork. You must show them, but DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES let them take posession, even to the point of holding it up for them to read, but not letting them touch.

So when the guy/gal wants to look through the maintenance folder and see what MELs or DMIs we have, I should hold the paperwork and turn each page for them? I think your paranoia is getting the best of you.