Radio Procedures

[Lear Wanna Be]

OK, don't slam me here, because I am really just asking to try to understand. Why is it that airline pilots (not all, probably just a few) are so impatient on the radio? For example, "Atlanta Center Nxxxxx checking in at 8,000." Three second pause then, "Atlanta Center (Airline of your choice)579 out of FL190 climbing FL230." Also, I quite often hear on initial check on if there is no response from the control fairly quickly (10 seconds max, usually just a couple) that you try again. Just kind of curious more than anything. Is it in the FOM that you guys have to establish radio contact ASAP. I realize you go fast, but does 5-10 extra seconds really matter?

Don't go getting all defensive, it really is no big deal. As I said, just curious. If the controller is too busy for me, that is no problem.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Because the sooner we end a stupid radio conversation the sooner we can go back to reading the paper. :laugh:

 

[radarlove]

OK, don't slam me here, because I am really just asking to try to understand. Why is it that airline pilots (not all, probably just a few) are so impatient on the radio? For example, "Atlanta Center Nxxxxx checking in at 8,000." Three second pause then, "Atlanta Center (Airline of your choice)579 out of FL190 climbing FL230." Also, I quite often hear on initial check on if there is no response from the control fairly quickly (10 seconds max, usually just a couple) that you try again. Just kind of curious more than anything. Is it in the FOM that you guys have to establish radio contact ASAP. I realize you go fast, but does 5-10 extra seconds really matter?

Don't go getting all defensive, it really is no big deal. As I said, just curious. If the controller is too busy for me, that is no problem.

Because we're climbing fast enough that a significant delay in contact can require an unnecessary level-off, which is kind of a p.i.t.a.

At cruise we can sit and wait.

 

[Mamma]

Dude, you have 7100 hours! You should be able to answer this yourself by now....I would think. Or, are you really not asking a question but making a statement? If so, then come out with it and don't hide it in a question.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Because we're climbing fast enough that a significant delay in contact can require an unnecessary level-off, which is kind of a p.i.t.a.

At cruise we can sit and wait.

Agreed, mostly to aviod a level off that you know will only last as long as it takes the controller to answer....then back to the climb.

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

To all you guys, thanks. Was just curious more than anything. Yeah, the level off kind of sucks when you are sitting in the back too.

Dude, you have 7100 hours! You should be able to answer this yourself by now....I would think. Or, are you really not asking a question but making a statement? If so, then come out with it and don't hide it in a question.

No statement here. I use to be annoyed at controllers until I understood what they had to deal with. Seperation, agreements with other areas, vectors for contoller amusement, blah, blah, blah. Kind of thought it be nice to see it from your side too.

Everyone is so hung up on hours...Problem with being my own boss. Make good money and have a lot of fun doing it. Down side, yet to fly anything really fast or really cool. Thus, 7100+ and no ATP (another hang-up with folks around here). It is really hard to walk away from. Can't afford the pay cut or job insecurity.

 

[FDJ2]

Because the sooner we end a stupid radio conversation the sooner we can go back to reading the paper. :laugh:

Classic.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

OK, don't slam me here, because I am really just asking to try to understand. Why is it that airline pilots (not all, probably just a few) are so impatient on the radio? For example, "Atlanta Center Nxxxxx checking in at 8,000." Three second pause then, "Atlanta Center (Airline of your choice)579 out of FL190 climbing FL230." Also, I quite often hear on initial check on if there is no response from the control fairly quickly (10 seconds max, usually just a couple) that you try again. Just kind of curious more than anything. Is it in the FOM that you guys have to establish radio contact ASAP. I realize you go fast, but does 5-10 extra seconds really matter?

Don't go getting all defensive, it really is no big deal. As I said, just curious. If the controller is too busy for me, that is no problem.

It doesn't matter.
ATC has a special monitor to determine when the power has come back.
A higher altitude clearance will be forthcoming upon power reduction.

 

[Alchemy]

Turn that question back around at ATC. When they issue an instruction, they give the pilot what, maybe 5 seconds before they repeat it?

Same thing....if the controller doesn't respond to me within 5 seconds or so, I'm going to assume they didn't hear my original transmission for some reason.

Another thing that no one seems to do is use standard phraseology on check-ins.

I always check in just like this (yes, I want a cookie):

"Atlanta Center, Airliner Twelve Thirty-Four, level, flight level three-seven-zero"

I've seen ATC videos that request that pilots say "level", "climbing" or "descending" before they say the altitude. I try to do that just to help ATC out a bit. I do sound a little stupid saying level almost twice in a row there, but I'm not the only one who uses this phraseology. For lack of anything better, I guess it's the ATC-preferred standard.

Another thing, why doesn't everyone announce vacating one assigned altitude for another (aka descending to cross an arrival fix at the assigned altitude)?

Here's something interesting I heard the other day, a Delta flight giving full position reports in Mexico even though the Mexican controller responded to every transmission with "RADAR CONTACT".

One last question, what's the proper way to pronounce a flight number such as 3001, 2006, etc? Three-Thousand One? Thirty Oh-One? Thirty Zero One? Three Zero Zero One?

I actually had a controller once who wouldn't accept my acknowledgements unless I responded with Thirty Zero One instead of Three Thousand One.

 

[ivauir]

Turn that question back around at ATC. When they issue an instruction, they give the pilot what, maybe 5 seconds before they repeat it?
Many controllers get PO'd WAY faster than that. There are a few who don't allow anytime for anyone else to speak either. On the other hand it doesn't take many pilots not listening to jam a frequencey up.
Same thing....if the controller doesn't respond to me within 5 seconds or so, I'm going to assume they didn't hear my original transmission for some reason.

Another thing that no one seems to do is use standard phraseology on check-ins.

I always check in just like this (yes, I want a cookie):

"Atlanta Center, Airliner Twelve Thirty-Four, level, flight level three-seven-zero"

I've seen ATC videos that request that pilots say "level", "climbing" or "descending" before they say the altitude. I try to do that just to help ATC out a bit. I do sound a little stupid saying level almost twice in a row there, but I'm not the only one who uses this phraseology. For lack of anything better, I guess it's the ATC-preferred standard.
This bit is interesting to me. The AIM wants us to say "climing to FL XXX' Personally I think this is bad technique. "To" and "for" sound just like "two" and "four". In a congested environment this can get ugly (and be hard to say). Personlly, I never say "to" or "for" on the radio.
Another thing, why doesn't everyone announce vacating one assigned altitude for another (aka descending to cross an arrival fix at the assigned altitude)?
This is another one that should go back to ATC. Whenever I decide to follow the AIM and do this, ATC seems annoyed at my extraneous call. I've never heard them chew someone out for not making it.

One last question, what's the proper way to pronounce a flight number such as 3001, 2006, etc? Three-Thousand One? Thirty Oh-One? Thirty Zero One? Three Zero Zero One?
My understanding is that your callsign is the one thing you get some authority over, whateve you checkin with is what they should use. I always say it the way that seems easiest.
I actually had a controller once who wouldn't accept my acknowledgements unless I responded with Thirty Zero One instead of Three Thousand One.

What a smuck.

 

[Andy]

Here's something interesting I heard the other day, a Delta flight giving full position reports in Mexico even though the Mexican controller responded to every transmission with "RADAR CONTACT".

One last question, what's the proper way to pronounce a flight number such as 3001, 2006, etc? Three-Thousand One? Thirty Oh-One? Thirty Zero One? Three Zero Zero One?

I actually had a controller once who wouldn't accept my acknowledgements unless I responded with Thirty Zero One instead of Three Thousand One.

Was the Delta aircraft reporting compulsary reporting points? I don't think that it matters if they're in radar contact over compulsary reporting points. I'm a bit rusty on reporting procedures.

The proper terminology should be Tree Zero Zero Wun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspeak
Numbers aren't supposed to be combined to make ten, one hundred, one thousand, etc in standard radio terminology.
And no, I haven't used tree, fife or niner in the US. I have used those pronunciations plenty of times in Europe and the sandbox. I'd do just about anything to keep from going 'to Dityman and hold. State fuel on board and do not lie.' Ah, the joys of international flight.

 

[profile]

Under ICAO standard, position reports are not required when in radar contact. Some countries, like China, expect them either way, although they seem to like abbreviated ones in radar contact.

ICAO would have you say each callsign number individually, but other countries do different things. U.S. deviates, as does the UK.

The word "level" is intrepreted as short for "flight level" everywhere in the world except U.S. The word "maintaining" means the same thing everywhere.

 

[ATRedneck]

This bit is interesting to me. The AIM wants us to say "climing to FL XXX' Personally I think this is bad technique. "To" and "for" sound just like "two" and "four". In a congested environment this can get ugly (and be hard to say). Personlly, I never say "to" or "for" on the radio.

That's why down here in Texas, we say t' and fer.

"...Climbin' t' one-zero thousand."

"One-five thousand fer two-three-zero."

 

[MachBuffet]

Reporting of leaving an assigned altitude.

There seem to be two types of pilots; those that report out of a discretionary altitude, and those that don't. This may not hold up in court because it is someone's interpretation. This is how it was explained to me by a Chicago Center controller-(while he was in the jumpseat) If you are told to descent to xxx altitude, you reply, "Sphincter One leaving Flight Level 280 for Flight Level 220." You are leaving your ASSIGNED altitude of FL280 for your new ASSIGNED altitude of FL 220. If you are told, "Descend at pilots discretion to FL 220." You reply, "Sphincter One discretion FL 220." You are no longer assigned FL 280. You are basically cleared for a block altitude from FL280 to FL 220. (AIM 4-4-9 (c) & (d) Once you vacate an altitude, you may not return to that altitude.) Therefore it is not required to report out of FL280. I hope I am right because I get irritated every time I have to put the paper down because the other guy says, "Tell him we are leaving 280."

 

[TR4A]

Leaving assigned altitude

It use be a required call to ATC when leaving an assigned altitude such as a discretionary descent. Now it says "Should". Seems some controllers are a little annoyed when you call out of that altitude like it is not required.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Whenever I go international, I go into AceCrackshot robo pilot radio mode. Go over to PPRUNE and listen to the Limeys whinge about our radiotelephony skills.

I got into it with a Captain over the use of "decimal" instead of "point."
I was taught by TWA international guys, so decimal was big points.

As far as calling out a discretionary altitude change, I figured I didn't need to, but if the freq wasn't congested, I'd do it just as a SA thing for the controller, especially if on an arrival and not cleared to decend via.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Whenever I go international, I go into AceCrackshot robo pilot radio mode. Go over to PPRUNE and listen to the Limeys whinge about our radiotelephony skills.

I got into it with a Captain over the use of "decimal" instead of "point."
I was taught by TWA international guys, so decimal was big points.

As far as calling out a discretionary altitude change, I figured I didn't need to, but if the freq wasn't congested, I'd do it just as a SA thing for the controller, especially if on an arrival and not cleared to decend via.

It's funny, I always here how the Europeans hate our "laid back" radio techniques, but listen closely to the locals when you are over there, especially England. There are just as laid back as we are, it is just something for them to piss and moan about.

 

[bestpilot]

It use be a required call to ATC when leaving an assigned altitude such as a discretionary descent. Now it says "Should". Seems some controllers are a little annoyed when you call out of that altitude like it is not required.

Duuude, but some of them controllers be diggin it when you be makin dat call, my brother from another mother, cause like their homeboy on the other frequency is working the sector like right below where you are like right now. So, dude, when you reports that you be vacatin, he be like reminded to like switch you over to the other controller dude.

That's why I always say

"Awww yeeeaaahh, SIT-RISS 123 be leaving 2-8-0 descending 2-4-0, my brother from the A-T-C mother."

I dont know why, but them peeps kinda like it.

 

[CA1900]

Leave it to the Brits to expect a three-syllable word (decimal) when a one-syllable word (point) conveys the same message in a third of the time.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Unless I get the pleasure of hearing, "Southwest XXX, reduce to mach .74 in trail spacing..." everything else is just noise.