RAA or Gulfstream?

[macfly]

I agree, I dont understand why these young lads over look the military. In my case, I dont have 20/20 naturally so it was never an option personally. The Coast Guard does however take guys with lasik, providing everything works out ok.

If your young, have a BS in a science related field, you can sign up for thier Blue 121 flight program. C-130, and some fast moving jets, hawkers? But, be prepared for helos if your not in the top of your class.

 

[plunger]

i went the civy route for my flight training. if your going to go in the military, i think you should do it because you want a career flying in the military. not for the sole purpose of time building for the airlines. i know people who went the military route and depending on what type of aircraft you get, you may not fly much. many military pilots fly a desk more than they do the airplane. also, like someone else mentioned, be prepared for a helo.

 

[aeronautic1]

Depends on the service

In the CG you may be assigned Herks or Falcons as well as helos. They are in the middle of an agressive up grade of their deepwater and aviation assets. And with HS the key thind, I would expect some longrange aricraft.

Airforce, well, if your going airline, then this is the place to be. HEAVY IRON baby!!! Rapid deploymeny is all about HEAVY lift capability. Helos are for search and rescue; a small part of the Air Force.

No heave transports in Army or Navy however they do have Gulfstreams and a few other heavy category corporate jets.

And the training is FREE!!! Better yet, you get PAID for training!!

 

[airlinehopeful]

Considering Gulfstream

I am currently considering a first officer program like Gulfstream instead of instructing after I get my commercial and multi. I have read many opinions for or against Gulfstream and others programs like it. Most of those arguments seem to be fighting back and forth about if it is pay-for-training or not. It looks like pay- for-training to me but I could care less. Why is that an issue? Getting your foot in the door is getting you foot in the door. What concerns me is their placement success and I would love info on their placement success. They boast 90% of their first officer program graduates getting first officer jobs with them or a partner airline. That is great but I am skeptical if it's that high. If anybody knows the truth I would appreciate it. Also, If anybody also knows of similar programs that give me a good chance of getting hired withput instructing, please let me know. I am 26 years old and I have a B.A.

 

[English]

I am currently considering a first officer program like Gulfstream instead of instructing after I get my commercial and multi. I have read many opinions for or against Gulfstream and others programs like it. Most of those arguments seem to be fighting back and forth about if it is pay-for-training or not. It looks like pay- for-training to me but I could care less. Why is that an issue? Getting your foot in the door is getting you foot in the door. What concerns me is their placement success and I would love info on their placement success. They boast 90% of their first officer program graduates getting first officer jobs with them or a partner airline. That is great but I am skeptical if it's that high. If anybody knows the truth I would appreciate it. Also, If anybody also knows of similar programs that give me a good chance of getting hired withput instructing, please let me know. I am 26 years old and I have a B.A.

Duck!

 

[propilot1983]

I am currently considering a first officer program like Gulfstream instead of instructing after I get my commercial and multi. I have read many opinions for or against Gulfstream and others programs like it. Most of those arguments seem to be fighting back and forth about if it is pay-for-training or not. It looks like pay- for-training to me but I could care less. Why is that an issue? Getting your foot in the door is getting you foot in the door. What concerns me is their placement success and I would love info on their placement success. They boast 90% of their first officer program graduates getting first officer jobs with them or a partner airline. That is great but I am skeptical if it's that high. If anybody knows the truth I would appreciate it. Also, If anybody also knows of similar programs that give me a good chance of getting hired withput instructing, please let me know. I am 26 years old and I have a B.A.

Uh oh...here we go again. Where is G200 to put everything in perspective when you need him? Airlinehopeful, i feel bad for what you are about to go through on this board by posting that.

 

[bobbysamd]

Possible flamebait?

It looks like pay- for-training to me but I could care less. Why is that an issue? Getting your foot in the door is getting you foot in the door.

No, it is not. You need to realize that aviation is a conservative, traditional business which emphasizes climbing the ladder at points appropriate to one's experience level. Those who try to pull end-runs on the system are resented by their peers, who have earned their experience. Anyone can buy flight time and buy a job. Earning the experience through legitimate employment is not as easy and is why that experience is valued and is why P-F-T is disdained.

If anybody also knows of similar programs that give me a good chance of getting hired withput instructing, please let me know. I am 26 years old and I have a B.A.

You certainly can check into Mesa Airlines Pilot Development. There also plenty of banner tow operations which hire low-time pilots. Some of these operations are sleazy and prey upon 250-hour pilots who don't wanna instruct.

I still cannot get over why so many new pilots disdain instructing. For one thing, there are few non-instructing jobs available to 250-hour pilots. Could it be that because good flight instructors do not get much stick time means that instructing is not "fun" and means one actually has to work? There comes a time when one must grow up realize that one actually has to work for a living and not all jobs will always be "fun." Moreover, achieving any worthwhile goal involves some measure of work.

Go reread parts of this thread and search Gulfstream on the board for plenty of comments about the place.

 

[the_dimwit]

PFT -- A Generation Thing

I'm what would be considered an 'outsider' among your community. I am a wannabe pilot with little time (not even classified as a student pilot). I have been lurking on this board for some time, reading the various PFT posts. At first, I thought "what's the big deal? A program that gets a person from student to right seat quickly has to be good, right?"

Well, I am here to say that I recognize several pitfalls with such a program. I know several professional pilots (both cpt and fo), and can honestly say that the disdain for PFT pilots is fairly universal. One good cpt friend of mine told me a story once:

He was contracted to sit right seat and play DE for a major school (who shall not be named). He was really unhappy with the way the pilot flew the airplane TO MINIMUMS. When he was allowed +/- 100 feet, he flew +/- 90 because he could. To my friend, this was a mark of a poor pilot. Good pilots are always in search of a better technique (his words, not mine), and work hard to get procedures right every time. When a procedure turn is flown just barely inside the lines, all that says is that you strive to just make it.

That said, I see why so many low-time pilots go the PFT route. I have read countless posts lamenting the incredibly low pay the traditional routes offer. I am a 27 year old internet engineer for a major ISP, and I make decent money. The thought of making less money than a cashier at Taco Bell does not warm my heart. HOWEVER, I believe a person will do whatever it takes to get what he/she wants.

My generation has grown up understanding that the good things in life can be had quickly -- if you have enough money. Infomercials will lead you to believe that we can be rich by investing 59.95 on a book or video that gets a person really excited, but does little to provide real insight into a good career. Advertisements and flashy brochures from PFT schools dangle the "get-you-hired-quick" mentality like a golden carrot, but only if you are one of the lucky few.

Just two cents from someone who likes to fly...whenever, wherever, and however he can.

--Dim

 

[aeronautic1]

Mistake

$25,ooo dollars, you get no type rating in the aircraft and when you finish up, you will have 250 hours on top of the 20 you have listed on your profile. What kind of job do you think you can get with such low hours. CFI with Be1900 time. WooWee!! Take the total number of pilots that go thru GA and everyone elses PFT program and gauge that against the total number of jobs filled and the odds look pretty bad.

 

[stuart716]

i talked with some friends that are there after their 250 hours and they say that around 90% is a correct figure. i know that psa is there right now interviewing and they do a lot with pinnacle and they do hire people from the program to work there. they have taken delivery of at least one brasilia with more on the way. i did the program myself and it was fun and i learned a lot. hope this helps. dont worry about what people might say because the only trash talking about it is done on this board or others like it.


aeronautic 1
you have to have all you initial ratings so you are looking at finishing with about 500 tt.

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream post-P-F-T hiring

i talked with some friends that are there after their 250 hours and they say that around 90% is a correct figure. i know that psa is there right now interviewing and they do a lot with pinnacle and they do hire people from the program to work there . . . .

. . . but the $64 question remains is why Gulfstream hires few, if any, of its own P-F-T graduates/trainees/customers. Do they have so little confidence in them that they must dump their graduates/trainees/customers on other airlines?

dont worry about what people might say because the only trash talking about it is done on this board or others like it.

Before I joined this board three years ago I had been in aviation for several years. Based on the people I met in aviation, I submit that the members and users of this board and similar forums make up a representative cross-section of the aviation community. Some may participate more than others, but there are plenty of people who hold the same opinions but only lurk. Therefore, the opinions you read here would be a good representation of the professional aviation community's opinions on various issues.

Here again, P-F-T is an employment issue only. By paying for your training you are paying for a job; the point being that so many employers take unfair advantage of their employees. By paying for a job, you put your "employer" on notice that you are ready and willing to be exploited and to be taken advantage of. Is that the relationship you wish to establish with an employer? That's not my preference, but I am old-school. Finally, flying airplanes, while great, is still just a job. No job is worth buying, for the all the same reasons.

To thine ownself be true.

 

[bobbysamd]

P F T

I'm what would be considered an 'outsider' among your community. I am a wannabe pilot with little time (not even classified as a student pilot). I have been lurking on this board for some time, reading the various PFT posts. At first, I thought "what's the big deal? A program that gets a person from student to right seat quickly has to be good, right?"

Well, I am here to say that I recognize several pitfalls with such a program. I know several professional pilots (both cpt and fo), and can honestly say that the disdain for PFT pilots is fairly universal. One good cpt friend of mine told me a story once:

He was contracted to sit right seat and play DE for a major school (who shall not be named). He was really unhappy with the way the pilot flew the airplane TO MINIMUMS. When he was allowed +/- 100 feet, he flew +/- 90 because he could. To my friend, this was a mark of a poor pilot. Good pilots are always in search of a better technique (his words, not mine), and work hard to get procedures right every time. When a procedure turn is flown just barely inside the lines, all that says is that you strive to just make it.

That said, I see why so many low-time pilots go the PFT route. I have read countless posts lamenting the incredibly low pay the traditional routes offer. I am a 27 year old internet engineer for a major ISP, and I make decent money. The thought of making less money than a cashier at Taco Bell does not warm my heart. HOWEVER, I believe a person will do whatever it takes to get what he/she wants.

My generation has grown up understanding that the good things in life can be had quickly -- if you have enough money. Infomercials will lead you to believe that we can be rich by investing 59.95 on a book or video that gets a person really excited, but does little to provide real insight into a good career. Advertisements and flashy brochures from PFT schools dangle the "get-you-hired-quick" mentality like a golden carrot, but only if you are one of the lucky few.

Good post. Very astute comments.

 

[X.m.i.s.f.i.t.X]

Just say no to Gulfstream

yeah, 325 Gulfstream F/O's hired by Pinnacle in 2 years, .... man you're really taking your chances at Gulfstream. God forbid you end up in the right seat of a 25 million dollar jet with less than 500 hrs TT. Point me towards Tab express.

 

[unreal]

yeah, 325 Gulfstream F/O's hired by Pinnacle in 2 years, .... man you're really taking your chances at Gulfstream. God forbid you end up in the right seat of a 25 million dollar jet with less than 500 hrs TT. Point me towards Tab express.

Towing the party line are we?

 

[aeronautic1]

Flight Safety

Hey Guys,

Good things come to those WHO WAIT!! I am currently at Flight Safety getting my inital type in the G200 ($45K course) PAID FOR by the a/c owner.

Boy I like corporate!!

 

[bobbysamd]

Old-school PFT

Good things come to those WHO WAIT!! I am currently at Flight Safety getting my inital type in the G200 ($45K course) PAID FOR by the a/c owner.

That's the way the system has worked in the past and should always work. Get your ratings on the company's nickel, not yours.

Good luck with your training.