QX to begin reducing SEA 200 early next year

[Icelandair]

Anyone know what to make of this for FO's? Does this mean everyone will get the 400 or will some of the FO's get screwed by being sent to PDX?

Gene Hahn and I met with IBT EXCO Chairman Larry Freer and Business Agent Bill Rainey on Friday, September 29. That was the first available opportunity to discuss the details surrounding the SEA base, and it's shift from Q200 flying to more Q400 flying.
Horizon and the IBT are in agreement as to the manner in which we will accomplish this shift in SEA flying. For Bid 186, and probably Bid 187, we are indeed heavy on Q200 crews in SEA, primarily first officers. That is driving the large numbers of reserve lines. The reason for this is that as we have placed Q400 lines of flying in SEA, we have shifted some Q200 flying to PDX. Some SEA Q200 captains have bid flying in PDX and more yet have been placed in differences training for the Q400. We will use those reserves to cover trips in PDX as well as SEA. We felt it was preferable to leave the Q200 pilots in place in SEA for the fall/holiday flying, as opposed to realigning some of them to PDX.
As the new Q400s come on line later this year and into the new year, we will begin to reduce SEA based Q200 pilots. That official announcement will come out later this month. With the reduction we think there will be opportunities for most of the Q200 pilots to remain in SEA as Q400 pilots. Please review CBA Section 17, A. and B. for all the possible options. Once the reduction bid is complete, we will develop the training plan accordingly and start placing pilots in class for the airplane they will hold.
We are continuing to hire new pilots into the Q200 with 14 new first officers joining the line on the Q200 between now and the end of the year. Look to see those pilots in PDX.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

So, it appears to me that the new hires will be going only to the Q200? Anybody know if newhires will see the Q400/RJ?

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

According to the training plan, they're still sending new hires to all 3 airplanes. New hires in the 400 appear to be going to both PDX and SEA, and the 200 folks are all going to PDX (of course). Crappy deal actually, because until they officially reduce/close the SEA 200 base, those FOs can't switch to the 400, so they're just helplessly watching as new hires take all the SEA 400 slots.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

For a newhire, which airplane would be best for holding a line quicker and more commutable trips?

 

[Sir Innocenti]

Upgrade times?

Is upgrade at Horizon still at 5-7 years????

 

[JAC2LAS]

For a newhire, which airplane would be best for holding a line quicker and more commutable trips?

Probably the Q200 in PDX or the Q400 (PDX or SEA). It doesn't seem like there will be much movement with the RJ now with all of the FO's from Denver comming back to PDX, but who knows, it's really a crap shoot and the pilots are the last to know whats going on.

 

[ReverseSensing]

For a newhire, which airplane would be best for holding a line quicker and more commutable trips?

Unfortunately, as a new-hire, it won't matter. The company assigns your slot. If you're asking which aircraft to wish for, we're taking delivery of 13 Q400s over the next year. New-hires going to SEA Q400 are holding lines right away, since there is no reserve in SEA (yet). I haven't seen any new-hires slotted to PDX Q400 in a while. PDX Q200 will probably end up miserable during the phase-out. Last rats off the sinking ship the 200 is, doing 4-days that look like this: YKM LMT - PDX.

Upgrade is around 5 years. May go down a little next year, but probably back up in 2008. So many variables it is hard to say.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Are they completely going to phase out the 200? Are the planning on sending Q400's to places like ALW, etc? Also, what kind of lines are in the 200 vs. 400? Is it a typical 4 on 3 off with 4-7 in there somewhere?

 

[FlyinScotsman]

Are they completely going to phase out the 200? Are the planning on sending Q400's to places like ALW, etc? Also, what kind of lines are in the 200 vs. 400? Is it a typical 4 on 3 off with 4-7 in there somewhere?

They haven't said yet as far as getting rid of all Q200's. I think they want to go to all Q400's, but it isn't practical to do some of our routes. They will either do a lot of triangles EAT-PSC-SEA, ALW-PSC-SEA in the Q400 or maybe just put out an RFP or give our smaller markets to Big Sky or some other small operator like (Gawd Forbid) Lakes or someone else. Of course all speculation at this point. Like someone said previously pilots in this outfit are the last to know anything.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

The lines between the 200 and 400 are pretty close as far as trips being 4 day or 3 day and days off. The 400 doesn't do quite as many legs as the 200, but the duty day is real close, average about 9-12hrs per day.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Are they completely going to phase out the 200? Are the planning on sending Q400's to places like ALW, etc? Also, what kind of lines are in the 200 vs. 400? Is it a typical 4 on 3 off with 4-7 in there somewhere?

In general, there are more 4 on/3 off lines in the 400. Those lines go more junior in the 400. The junior lines in the 200 are pretty scruffy: 5 and 6 days on with 2 days off (13 days off in 5 weeks). Most of the 400 lines seem to be decent and since the credit values are higher in the 400, you usually end up with more days off. The 400 lines will probably get scruffier with fewer average days off once the 400 does more 200 flying and the credit values drop.

One additional possible solution to the 200 flying is to simply drop the frequency into some of the smaller cities and fly them in the 400. Operationally, there's no place the 200 goes that the 400 can't go, and since the 400 is supposedly profitable half-full, I think there will be a phase-out of the 200 altogether, though it may take years.

As far as more triangle flying, I'm not sure SEA drive markets like EAT, YKM, PSC will tolerate triangles.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

If anybody has inside info on where the next 2 classes are going, post please.

 

[check6]

Can someone confirm how many upcoming classes there are?

 

[FlyinZuck]

Last I heard, all classes were cancelled... Hi Andy!

 

[CWUalum]

News to me as I am starting on the 19th in the Q200 out of PDX. Maybe I will get a call tomorrow and they will tell me that the class is cancelled. Hopefully not, although I will let you all know if it happens.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

I was told Nov 21st class date scheduled?

 

[ReverseSensing]

I was told Nov 21st class date scheduled?

Unfortunately, the training plan hasn't been updated since 10/6, which still shows the 10/19 class (4 RJ, 6 200, 9 400), but nothing later. Unless Bombardier is behind on deliveries, I would be surprised if any classes this fall are cancelled. I think FlyinZuck may have been pulling someone's chain, hence the smiley.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Can somebody give me a realistic outlook on lets say doing a comute from ANC to SEA or PDX. 3 hours flight or so. If doable, which aircraft would be most friendly and base?

 

[propsarebest]

ANC to SEA/PDX is IMPOSSIBLE in the summer, don't even think about it.

 

[Singlecoil]

ANC to SEA/PDX is IMPOSSIBLE in the summer, don't even think about it.

Except that I did it for 3.5 years and never missed a trip. Commuting is all about frequency. Well, frequency and jumpseats. Horizon pilots can bump everybody but Alaska, so it isn't that hard to get a ride. Getting bumped for weight will piss you off though.

 

[ReverseSensing]

ANC to SEA/PDX is IMPOSSIBLE in the summer, don't even think about it.

I have to agree: this is some bad advice. Even without the flightdeck jumpseat, the only time I struggled to commute was right around Christmas and Thanksgiving. And CASS carrier pilots were getting out in the jumpseats even over the holidays. Summers are actually pretty wide open, except for certain times of day. ANC-SEA may actually be the best commute (aside from the length of the flights) of any city pair in the entire QX/AS system.

If doable, which aircraft would be most friendly and base?

Hands down, no question: SEA Q400. Many, many more non-stops to SEA than PDX, allowing you to avoid the second Shuttle commute which can be a bear. Plus, SEA 400 will (ultimately) be a junior base even with displacements from the -200, meaning less time on reserve. I'm sure I don't have to tell anybody what a bad idea commuting to reserve is.

 

[Master Shake]

Can somebody give me a realistic outlook on lets say doing a comute from ANC to SEA or PDX. 3 hours flight or so. If doable, which aircraft would be most friendly and base?

So you're leaving us? I remember reading (on this forum) how stoked you were to get hired here (with pretty low time) after ERA took a dump. If you stayed you would upgrade here next year. Why, why, why would you want to start over at Horizon????? This is not a slam on Horizon, just wondering why you'd bail out on your senority and QOL to start over and look at a 6 year upgrade. Do you just want to stay at this level? I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm really confused by what it looks like you are going to do. Either way, good luck.

 

[onewithwings]

Can somebody give me a realistic outlook on lets say doing a comute from ANC to SEA or PDX. 3 hours flight or so. If doable, which aircraft would be most friendly and base?

D, QX has many pilots who live in ANC as you do....it's certainly doable.

 

[JetSpeed219]

If you were assigned the Q400 in SEA how long would it take to get PDX???

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Is Horizon HeadQuarter's in PDX or SEA? How about the maint base? The web-site says SEA HQ, but I thought everything was in PDX?

 

[ReverseSensing]

Is Horizon HeadQuarter's in PDX or SEA? How about the maint base? The web-site says SEA HQ, but I thought everything was in PDX?

QX HQ, AS HQ, AAG HQ, all in SEA.
QX primary MX/Flight Ops, etc. in PDX.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Thanks a lot.