QX and EMB190/CRJ900?

[ReverseSensing]

Horizon considering Embraer?

April 12, 2006

An Alaska Airlines employee asked this question about Horizon Air's future fleet plans, and the answer by Pat Zachwieja, vice president, Marketing and Planning, was posted on alaskasworld.com today.

I've heard that Horizon Air is looking to add the EMB190 aircraft to its fleet. How does this aircraft fit into the plan?

Pat Zachwieja: Horizon is indeed looking at the EMB190 aircraft, as well as the CRJ-900 and other aircraft that may be candidates for growth aircraft in support of our long-term Alaska Air Group strategic plan.

The Alaska and Horizon planning teams work jointly in this planning process, and we make it our business to be up on the details of all aircraft types for this purpose. As a result, we're continually in the loop with (and being pitched by) all aircraft manufacturers, including Embraer. However, that said, we're still quite a ways from making a decision on this, or any other type of new aircraft.

Fleet and market planning for Air Group is a collaborative process between Alaska and Horizon and an extension of the "harmonization" initiatives that have proved fruitful for both companies. Recommendations stem from a thorough analysis of many things, including current fleet compositions, existing market performance and future market opportunity, competitive and economic assumptions, etc. From there, the planning teams further refine the fleet plans in an effort to identify what we'll need that we currently don't have if we're to capitalize on the opportunities.


During this stage, the planning groups are looking to match each market opportunity to the optimal aircraft/schedule solution and also to determine if Alaska or Horizon have the right aircraft in the fleet, or not. Over the years, this process has led us to consider adding 737-800s to the Alaska fleet and more Q400s to the Horizon fleet.

We will continue to evaluate new categories of airplanes as market and competitive conditions determine. Our goal, which we've remained consistent with, is to make fleet decisions that provide long-term profitable growth for both companies, and not to grow one company at the expense of the other.

What is it with this company and communications: Nothing interesting for months, then this and the SEA Q400 base announcement within 2 days of each other?!?

Anyone smell Section 6 carrot soup?

 

[Icelandair]

What is section 6? Is this a "growth for concessions" offer in the making?

 

[ReverseSensing]

What is section 6? Is this a "growth for concessions" offer in the making?

Section 6 was what was started by this:

March 17, 2006

Mr. Don Treichler
Director, Airline Division
International Brotherhood of Teamsters
6242 Westchester, Suite 250
Los Angeles, CA 90045

Mr. Eugene E. Sowell
President and General Counsel
Local 747, International Brotherhood of Teamsters
1419 FM 1960 Road
Houston, Texas 77073
Mr. William E. Rainey

Business Agent
Local 747, International Brotherhood of Teamsters
12225 2nd Avenue South
Seattle, WA 98168

Gentlemen:

The purpose of this letter is to notify you that -- in accordance with Section 32, Duration, of the Agreement between Horizon Air Industries, Inc. (the Company) and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Covering Pilots, in effect until Sept. 13, 2006 (the Agreement) -- the Company intends to propose certain changes to the Agreement in accordance with Section 6, Title I, of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

etc. etc. blah, blah, blah...

Right now management has little we want, besides for minor tweaks here and there. I'm not smart enough to entirely figure out how things will play out, but I wouldn't be surprised if 90-seaters were dangled out there to get some of our SJS sufferers young and old salivating.

 

[tomba187]

Did they move the entire 400 base to seattle?

 

[Capi_Cafre']

Anyone smell Section 6 carrot soup?

Phew.......who Arted?

 

[unwashed]

half the 400's (16) will be based in SEA. 33% of the remaining 200's will remain based there. 22 total aircraft in SEA

 

[ReverseSensing]

Here's the 400 SEA base announcement:

April 10


Sharing news about future crew basing

Hello again. Of frequent discussion over the last several months has been the issue of our about-to-expand Q400 fleet, and the implications for where those crews might be based. We’re not completely at the end of all the associated logistical decisions, but I thought I would at least share the information we do have and the decisions that have been made.


We started this process by obtaining a basic marketing plan, which was then transformed into aircraft flows, then trip pairings and bid lines, under a number of scenarios. Although some of the assumptions made may already be obsolete, we think we have the general idea of what the system will look like in July 2007 (so far, the end of our firm delivery stream).


So, with that analysis behind us, we’re ready to announce that the 32-aircraft fleet of Q400s will be crewed via two roughly equally sized bases of PDX and SEA.


With a like process, and assuming we will remarket 9 Q200s, our remaining 19-aircraft fleet of Q200s will be crewed from the existing bases, with approximately 67 percent of the flying in PDX and the remaining 33 percent in SEA.


Our next step will be to develop a bidding and training plan, and try to resolve the “how do we get there from here” question, including when SEA might see the first Q400. Our strategy is to engage the EXCO; ensure that the language in our agreement is discussed, debated, and well understood; arrive at a consensus that will guide this process; and provide you with the information needed to make equipment and base decisions.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Phew.......who Arted?

Geez, light a match next time!

 

[mrnolmts]

Next, we'll see: "We'd like to get some EMB-190's/CRJ-900's, but we need to stay competitive in those markets, so in order for us to get those airplanes, you need to take a 30% paycut. Shouldn't be a problem for all you FO's out there, cause you'll upgrade, so technically it won't be a paycut for you. It may even be a slight pay raise!!! AND, you get to fly left seat!!! Isn't it SWELL?"

 

[turbinesurgeon]

Next, we'll see: "We'd like to get some EMB-190's/CRJ-900's, but we need to stay competitive in those markets, so in order for us to get those airplanes, you need to take a 30% paycut. Shouldn't be a problem for all you FO's out there, cause you'll upgrade, so technically it won't be a paycut for you. It may even be a slight pay raise!!! AND, you get to fly left seat!!! Isn't it SWELL?"

The sad truth is I heard a couple of F.O's wanting a growth contract and willing to give up pay for the bigger aircraft. WTF, haven't the other regional taught us anything?

 

[LT. Dangle]

The sad truth is I heard a couple of F.O's wanting a growth contract and willing to give up pay for the bigger aircraft. WTF, haven't the other regional taught us anything?

Absolutely no F*cking way!!! I'll stay FO forever before I sign up for concessions. And I hope (fingers crossed) that most everybody else shares my feelings.

 

[n25na]

The sad truth is I heard a couple of F.O's wanting a growth contract and willing to give up pay for the bigger aircraft. WTF, haven't the other regional taught us anything?

Not one cent!

Growth contracts are the biggest sham, the last carrier that had one of those sent 150 of us onto the street...still tryin' to figure out how we grew there?!

Giving up pay for larger airplanes is an oxymoron, it just doesn't make any sense. If you're willing to give up pay for larger equipment, you might as well keep flying the airplanes you have for the same pay. I just don't see how that improves anything.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

Not one cent!

Growth contracts are the biggest sham, the last carrier that had one of those sent 150 of us onto the street...still tryin' to figure out how we grew there?!

I grew to hate managment

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

The sad truth is I heard a couple of F.O's wanting a growth contract and willing to give up pay for the bigger aircraft. WTF, haven't the other regional taught us anything?

We can only hope that those couple of FOs will remain completely outnumbered come voting time. We've really gotta stick together on this one.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

We can only hope that those couple of FOs will remain completely outnumbered come voting time. We've really gotta stick together on this one.

Yeah, I think they were suffering from SJS. I think the majority of our senior pilots and pilots burned by other airlines are long past SJS.

 

[Southbound]

I hadn't seen that "breaking news" on onyourhorizon.com. They (AK/QX higher ups) are truly shameless. The friggin airgroup is better at keeping a secret than the CIA. If they had any real plans at all we would hear nothing until it happens.

The only bit of truth from the article I could find would be Pat Zach's comment "we are still quite a ways from making a decision on this". It took them 3 years of "deliberation" to put some 400's in SEA.

What does 'remarket' mean? I know what they say but what does it really mean? Seems to be a mystery to all, Gene included.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

Best. Avatar. Ever.

 

[ReverseSensing]

The sad truth is I heard a couple of F.O's wanting a growth contract and willing to give up pay for the bigger aircraft.

Please tell me these were a few naive folks in your new hire class.

 

[ReverseSensing]

What does 'remarket' mean? I know what they say but what does it really mean? Seems to be a mystery to all, Gene included.

I think "remarket" is to "market" as "retard" is to "tard." But I might be wrong.

 

[Southbound]

I think "remarket" is to "market" as "retard" is to "tard." But I might be wrong.

Yes, you are correct. You have to laugh at their sh!t. It should have it's own little late night pilot corner on Comedy Central. Maybe they can contract out some of this 90 seat flying.

 

[Southbound]

Best. Avatar. Ever.

Mi colchon esta lleno de gusanos.

 

[QXbuzzard]

I find in interesting too that all of a sudden they post something like that on the company website. Just like the Art Thomas letter. I don't remember seeing a letter or knowing anything about the mechanics' contract when it was going on. I think since we cost the company the most, they are spilling all this on the entire employee group as a plot to get them to be against us.

Hey, an EMB190 would be great, but I would rather sit as an FO for 6-7 years before I sign anything for growth for concessions. If I upgrade faster than that time I will consider that great, but no F!@*ing way will take a paycut so I can still sit in the Dash and never see the 190. Even if it meant flying it, I still won't take a paycut. I can't wait until I upgrade, but for those few FO's who would sacrifice pay for a shiny jet and a quick upgrade, don't kid yourselves. Don't bring the rest of us down. Luckily I think the rest of us are pretty smart and won't allow that to happen.

 

[n25na]

The sad truth is I heard a couple of F.O's wanting a growth contract and willing to give up pay for the bigger aircraft. WTF, haven't the other regional taught us anything?

It's like an executive saying, "sure, I'll be the CEO, but only if you pay me less and I demand less vacation time..stock options, nah, don't need em..."

 

[flx757]

For what it's worth, this first appeared as a question submitted by an Alaska employee to the "Water Cooler" on Alaska's World. It was then reprinted on onyourhorizon.

 

[BORAT]

Here's something I pondered the other day, instead of ditching the DASH, why don't they make a couple into cargo aircraft. A DASH flying cargo around the NW and maybe even around Southeast AK might make some $$$...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[flx757]

Supposedly that very rumor (using Dash-8-200s in Alaska for cargo) has been going around Horizon. Sounded like a good idea to me.

 

[DoubleDown]

I heard that Horizon is looking for these aircraft because the Alaska pilots will probably try to scope us out when their contact is up. The air group wants these aircraft, but they would rather see us fly them than pay mainline pilots. I don't care who flies them, as long and the pay matches the seats. I will vote no on anything that includes a pay cut.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I heard that Horizon is looking for these aircraft because the Alaska pilots will probably try to scope us out when their contact is up. The air group wants these aircraft, but they would rather see us fly them than pay mainline pilots. I don't care who flies them, as long and the pay matches the seats. I will vote no on anything that includes a pay cut.

If 90-seaters go anywhere at Air Group, personally, I'd rather see them at AS. I'm all for growth at QX, but not at any cost. I'm not interested in being part of a double poke in the eye to our brothers at AS by taking over even more routes with a/c that approach the size of the MD's. The pilots at AS have a right to expect that when the Air Group contemplates MD replacement sized a/c, they would get to fly them, if they want to.

Let's not be greedy at QX. We are well-compensated and have a good mix of equipment and routes, and are getting some growth. AS pilots should get to enjoy some growth, too. I frankly wouldn't blame AS pilots if they were to attempt to scope QX out of 90-seaters. These are, after all, closer to being MD replacements than 200 replacements.

I guarantee that Air Group would love to get the QX pilots worked into a lather about flying 90-seaters. That would definitely serve their interests. The only lather I'll be getting into is the one I work up attempting to clean the stink off my hands from the crap that'll be coming out of Art's shop in coming months.

 

[QXbuzzard]

If 90-seaters go anywhere at Air Group, personally, I'd rather see them at AS. I'm all for growth at QX, but not at any cost. I'm not interested in being part of a double poke in the eye to our brothers at AS by taking over even more routes with a/c that approach the size of the MD's. The pilots at AS have a right to expect that when the Air Group contemplates MD replacement sized a/c, they would get to fly them, if they want to.

Let's not be greedy at QX. We are well-compensated and have a good mix of equipment and routes, and are getting some growth. AS pilots should get to enjoy some growth, too. I frankly wouldn't blame AS pilots if they were to attempt to scope QX out of 90-seaters. These are, after all, closer to being MD replacements than 200 replacements.

I guarantee that Air Group would love to get the QX pilots worked into a lather about flying 90-seaters. That would definitely serve their interests. The only lather I'll be getting into is the one I work up attempting to clean the stink off my hands from the crap that'll be coming out of Art's shop in coming months.

I have to agree with that. It would be great to fly a 190 and all, but indeed if QX wants to grow, managment needs to find ways to do it without screwing the AS side of things. Management needs to stop talking about remarketing 9 200's and just keep the damn things. Find some work to do with them. Can't be that difficult. Probably easier than finding some company to sub-lease from them.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

Please tell me these were a few naive folks in your new hire class.

Nope, they have been with QX for awhile.