Quick pinnacle upgrades?

[Dumb Pilot]

If you come here, it will take 2.5 months to make it through OE, because of reserve another 2-3 months to get the 100 hours of FO time before you can bid captain, another 2 months for a class date, 2.5 months to get all the way through captain OE, BEFORE YOU GET CAPTAIN PAY!

You are saying that the reserve F/O's are not flying then? I would recheck those stats since everyone in PCL is flying 90 hours a month. You are understaffed remember? And the reason why folks are taking this long during OE is because of the experience levels, not because of the reserve since they get paired with their check airman on his or her line which is NOT a reserve line, people are taking 50-60 hours of OE to get them through (you forgot that I was a check airman there, I guess) you want these folks trained or just signed off, you can't have it both ways

Also, we are the lowest paid jet FO's in the industry

You knew this before you came to PCL

We are using money that Pinnacle pilots and other pinnacle employees earned this corporation to finance 15-30 shiny new planes for another company that will have no benifit to our employees, all the while telling us that there is not enough money in the till to pay us anything but industry bottom wages, Inside management trading like you can't believe(mostly selling right now), bleeding money to NWA for cancellations, Violated our agreement blatently with regard to vacation slide, no min day, no duty rigs, NO TRIP DROPS OR TRADES BEING APROVED, and much much more.

Again, this is typical of this so called regional industry. you seem to forget how it was during the hiring boom of pre 9/11 this is not the first time this happens at PCL and it is not the ONLY regional where the understaffing pains are felt

For those that think about comming here just for the quick PIC, it only takes an attack or a recession to make you stay here alot longer than you planned. That happened to alot of people not to many years ago.

I was one of those people (you seem to forget) In the hiring pool for one of the legacies pre 9/11, I thought that my stay in PCL was as long as it took to get a class date assigned. But instead, I spent six years there. If there is another catastrophe of the proportions of 9/11 God forbid, you shall see mainline guys back in PCL property again. That is the nature of this business, I also saw the downturn of 90/91 Also was on the hiring pool for a legacy back then that doesn't even exists now, welcome to aviation

First of all, I don't "spend too much time" on Flight Info

I said that you two spend "too much time posting negative stuff"

When I came to Pinnacle I did NOT know how the pilots were treated and the way the company viewed things.

Who's fault is that? is not like the information wasn't out there.

It's called learning from your mistakes,

Why don't you just leave? You can still fix this mistake, Is not like there aren't jobs available in other regionals with better contracts and pay. Or is it because you are waiting on the fast 1000 PIC to go to a major? Again as bad as it is (I also have first hand knowledge of how bad it is) you will get your 1000 PIC faster at PCL that if you go somewhere else and that is why you are willing to endure the horror, isn't it?

how about during contract negotiations we stand up and fight for better 1st year pay instead of just thinking about what am I getting or what am I loosing

AMEN, do it


I'm not saying that you don't have a legitimate point with your posts, because you do. But your strategy to keep the staffing down through scarring people off stating conditions that are not unique to PCL is not going to work because it sounds like a "rant" And like you very eloquently said

"I could really care less what anyone thinks on here because most of this is total garbage."

After a while that is just what rants sound like


Back your MEC, that is the way to fix things

 

[Flywrite]

So fellas...just hypothetically...if someone with the upgrade mins were to start class in September and bid CA what's the best guess for when that person would see Captain pay?

And yes, this hypothetical person is familiar with all the negative aspects of being a newhire CA.

 

[Smarta$$]

So fellas...just hypothetically...if someone with the upgrade mins were to start class in September and bid CA what's the best guess for when that person would see Captain pay?

And yes, this hypothetical person is familiar with all the negative aspects of being a newhire CA.

Very good estimate,

2.5 months till completion of FO OE, 2-3 months reserve until you can bid for CA, 2 months to start CA class, 2.5 months to complete upgrade through OE.

Our reserves are not flying 90. I did 6 months reserve and never ONCE broke guarantee.

My initial went straight through, never cancelled a sim, never failed a single event, did OE in four days for a total of 26 hours blocked, and it still took 2.5 months. Many others had sims cancelled, retrains, long breaks for OE because of not enough instructors, and they took well over three months to complete initial OE.

That is 9-10 months till CA pay, and 14.5 mos till second year pay.

Oh, you will get about 1554 dallors a month until then.

 

[dondk]

Dondk, pinnacle needs negative growth. But you said they may not give our planes to Mesaba. I know these are not your decisions, but they are contradictory. Personally, I think the planes will go to Mesaba, But maybe later or at a slower pace.

I agree with everything you stated, you have a real good idea of what is happening at PNCL.

let me clarify my statement though.

Negative growth is inevitable at PNCL, the scheduling chairman also stated that a few weeks ago.

Mesaba and our 17 jets. During my stint on nonconnah, in more than a few meetings it was alluded that those 17 were going no where anytime soon. They may all leave, I do think that may happen but not on the schedule NW set. Mesaba hinted a few times they could not take them and they would sit and collect dust. With their 900 growth and the need for 900's to take the DC-9 flying that is more important than a 50 seater that is just going to do what PNCL does already.

Add now, the brilliant staff of nonconnah that figures PNCL can still operate them with the current staffing. I have never heard uncle phil tell NWA no... it is not in his vocabulary, he tells them sure thing then comes down on director row to make it happen. Director row passes the buck to everyone else and tells uncle phil.. no problem we are on it. I saw that personally... simply amazing... just lie if necessary so you don't do a carpet dance in the bosses office.

Bottom line... something HAS to give... the money is on negative growth. A quantity of jets will be parked somewhere or given back with a note.. "sorry we can't operate them because we have no one to do it."
At some point, it will be cheaper to park some jets than take 1.4 million hits every couple of months. PNCL only makes about 20 million a year in profit. They already are given NWA about 6-7 million in penalties and the year is not over.

the other theory, PNCL is low on cash. At some point BK may be the only option.

finally, many of the current mgmt have bonuses tied into their compensation packages. There have been no bonuses because of the penalties. How much longer does anyone think some of them are going to last with no financial incentives?

 

[dondk]

So fellas...just hypothetically...if someone with the upgrade mins were to start class in September and bid CA what's the best guess for when that person would see Captain pay?

And yes, this hypothetical person is familiar with all the negative aspects of being a newhire CA.

IF (key word) you have met all the hard minimums. You can be offered the left seat before completing class. All they would do is move you to the left seat in the sim.

so.. if you have a sept 1 class date, you would be looking at a Dec 1 vacancy and could complete everything about the middle of Nov.

downside... if a pilot chooses the left seat in initial, they are NOT considered a "street" captain. They are considered a FO unless they specifically hire and assign you prior to the start of class. You would see yourself listed as a FO on a vacancy until the next one came out. Therefore FO pay until Fed ride. If street CA, CA pay from checkride completion.

Now.. here is where it gets sticky
option 1
if you are hired a "street captain" if you are unsuccessful in training they do not have to offer you a FO slot, they can simply separate.

option 2
now if you are hired as an FO, move to the left seat before leaving training. If unsuccessful then, you have the option to move back to the right seat and it will show as a training failure but you are still employed. You will not be allowed to upgrade for a year.

option 3
you start as a FO, move to CA during initial... find it is not your cup of tea and move back to FO before any checking event.
you are retained, it will count as a failure (withdrawal), they may hold you to a year seat lock and when you attempt a second time if THEN you are unsuccessful you are subject to termination.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

That is 9-10 months till CA pay, and 14.5 mos till second year pay.

Oh, you will get about 1554 dallors a month until then.

I see your point, it is absolutely horrible


You PFTrs and generation Xrs really make me laugh, you are posting captain position in less than a year as a complaint?

I'm officially signing off this thread

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Get what? That two individuals that post negativity continuously start sounding like the boy that cried wolf?
Just read this thread, the more they say "NO" the more people ask "can I get MEM right after training" It is NOT on FI that the PCL contract will be fixed. The pilots in this industry have to come to a realization that without each other (NWAMEC, XJMEC, and PCLMEC) there will be NO contract worth while because there will always be some starry eyed punk that will do anything just to fly for $20/h.



I understand what you are saying PCL-128 But you have been around enough to know that if you hit them with the lights at the right angle, you can see the strings and if you follow the strings the other end is in Eagan. We have to realize that the respective MEC's from the red tail system (that applies to every airline for that matter) have to start working together on this, without the support of ALL pilots under the brand and the backup of ALPA central we are just playing catch up with individuals that have great resources to develop strategies. The system of different MEC's working on their own and in the blind with respect to what the other MEC's are doing doesn't work, the system of pilot volunteers developing strategies against big corporation that hire expert strategists doesn't work and they will always stay ahead a thousand paces
When ALPA threatens, management laughs because lately they just bend time after time. The governor of NYC for example, listens when the garbage collectors talk. Why? those folks really mean it when they say "You mess with one, you mess with all" You know what? I'm done getting worked up about it. I'm sure the inflatable rat will work for you, that is assuming that there is shame within the management ranks

Excellent point... another to do list item on the Fix it ALPA Show....


As you read this thread you can see how determined management is NOT to increase hourly rates and work rules... they'd rather have negative growth??? Now you can see what you're dealing with....