Questions for the ASA guys

[d.fitz]

Hey,

The dallas and atlanta pilot bases make this the most convenient to me, by far!

Any idea when they might hire - I saw that they are going to the Air Inc. job fair at LAX. What gives? Are they interviewing or just going for show?

How's the company to work for?

Thanks for the help!

 

[exeagle]

Many think by the end of the year, after all e120 crews are trained, we will hire again, but no one knows for sure. ASA is an awesome place to work and I know alot of people would agree with that. Good luck!

 

[sleepy]

I know that we were interviewing during the first part of March. I would not be surprised if we hired from the pool before the end of the year.

 

[DawgPilot]

Pool?

Sorry if this has been hashed out before.
But how big/deep is the pool at ASA? Any insight into growth or future hiring plans?
Thanks for any help.

 

[exeagle]

Capt Ellis said there was 70 in our company newsletter a few months ago. Not sure about now.

 

[sleepy]

We seem to have a critical pilot shortage. I road in today with a busload of drafted pilots (both ATR and CRJ). They actually drafted people while they were in recurrent training. I would guess that as soon as the backlog of E-120 pilots in training clears out, we will hire.

 

[btflyer2]

How is that retraining coming along . .

Thanks for the info, Sleepy. So now if anyone knows when the EMB guys will be done retraining, please let us know.

Have they finished the ATL guys? And have they started the EMB guys based in DFW? Any one heard if they are able to get the 700's they want from Bombardier?

Thanks, much.

 

[bailout]

I agree with the shortage,. only to the point of a shortage 'online'. -Ask all the Captains that are sitting right seat, and all the ones TDY'd to DFW- There are plenty here, but in training. The ATL EMBs guys dont show to finish training until late August / September.

 

[ERJdca]

Hey guys,

Anyone know what ASA is hiring into, or will? Is atlanta a more junior base?

Thanks

 

[Medeco]

The Dallas base is most junior at ASA. I was a Dec. newhire and our class of 20 were all assigned DFW/CRJ. 10 to the 200 and 10 to the 700.

I can say that so far it is great. I commute from ATL and have only had one day of reserve, that will change, but for now I hold a relief line, and have a hard line my first full month on the line in April. ASA/DFW just made a 35% increase in one day on April 6th so things are crazy, but good.

My prediction is we hire by mid to late summer, after things smooth out with the shuffle of EMB pilots.

Medeco

 

[ERJdca]

Is the training out in Dallas?


Thanks for the info

 

[exeagle]

Most do training in Atlanta, however, some EMB Training is in dallas.

 

[ERJdca]

whats the average days off/line holder/reserve? callout? Sorry for all the questions, just thinking about jumping ship and want to make sure its worth it. (so far it seems that way)

Thanks again

 

[sleepy]

whats the average days off/line holder/reserve? callout? Sorry for all the questions, just thinking about jumping ship and want to make sure its worth it. (so far it seems that way)

Thanks again

Days off on reserve are a minimum of 10. There are many different reserve periods you could be assigned to, but they all have a 2 hour call-out. Reserve at ASA can be pretty bad, depending on your aircraft (I bid reserve on the CR7 this month and have not flown yet, but people on the ATR and CR2 are getting abused).

You would probably be assigned to DFW as a new hire. You could bid for ATL (the more senior base), don't know how long it would take to get there though. The lines for senior pilots sometimes have 15 to 18 days off. The average is probably around 11 to 12. You can chose from lines of four day trips, day lines, three day trips, CDO's or back-to-back two day trips. I don't know how long it takes to hold a line in DFW as a new FO. They are getting a lot of growth out there, so it might not take but 3 to 4 months.

As a 3rd year FO on the CR7 you can make about $42,000 plus per diem ($3,000). The first year pay sucks big-time (expect to make $17,000 plus maybe $2,000 in per diem), but if you can get through the first year, get off of reserve, and if we are able to hold-off the predatory DAL pilots and lower cost portfolio carriers (Chit, ACA, Skywest, TBA), it could be a pretty good place for you to work.

 

[ERJdca]

Well thanks for the info guys, just sucks being here at mesa for 3 years and thinking about starting over again(especially knowing we have to bend over for 4.5 more years). I went to school with a lot of guys that are over there, they started around the same time as i started here and they never complained much. I looked up the asa contract and didn't see CRJ-700 pay? 1st,2nd,3rd year pay? Thanks again guys, i certainly appreciate the info.

 

[exeagle]

Its under LOA 29

CRJ700 Rates

Captain
Date
Year 1 $60.20
Year 2 $62.07
Year 3 $63.97
Year 4 $65.96
Year 5 $68.01
Year 6 $70.11
Year 7 $72.27
Year 8 $74.50
Year 9 $77.51
Year 10 $80.63
Year 11 $83.12
Year 12 $85.69
Year 13 $88.35
Year 14 $91.07
Year 15 $93.89
Year 16 $96.71
Year 17 $99.60
Year 18 $102.59

b. First Officers Longevity Effective
Date
Year 1 $19.02
Year 2 $37.24
Year 3 $38.38
Year 4 $39.58
Year 5 $40.80
Year 6 $42.06
Year 7 $43.36
Year 8 $44.70

 

[Ralph]

I've had a thought about the industry, I'm curious to find out what those of you working for an airline think. I think we will see a merging of pilot salaries. Anytime a few people have all the money the systems falls apart and a radical (or sometimes violent) redistribution of wealth happens.

I think the Delta and United captains have been making far too much in contrast to the Comair captain. While I don’t think the pay will end up equal, I think salaries at the major airlines will drop to perhaps a maximum of 150 or 180 thousand a year while salaries at the regional airlines like Comair will see a maximum of just slightly lower. This will mean the major airline pilots will continue to see a drop in salaries and the regional pilot salaries will continue to rise.

It seems logical to me, but what do you think?

 

[d.fitz]

I am not an airline pilot (yet) - however I have thought this through and I think your thoughts are DEAD ON.

There are going to be no more $250 k/year 8 day/month jobs. I believe we will see this as more and more carriers file for bankruptcy. I feel this is especially true when you consider that a Beech 1900 has no autopilot and those guys fly in the weather sometimes 8 or more legs a day! Whereas a 777 goes for about 16 hours non-stop on autopilot with an autoland at the destination. I understand you are responsible for many more lives but the disparity in pay is un-justified. The system needs a shift.

I totally agree with what you said - and I feel that the regionals are going to become life-long carriers paths for many pilots.

All this is (of course) IMHO.

 

[wil]

Ralphie my boy- On this one I have to agree!!

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Why do you all assume that top pay has to decrease for the bottom pay to increase? Are we that quick to forget that before 9/11 airlines were making billions paying those salaries? Traffic WILL come back, and the economy will recover. There is no reason to think that we cannot raise regional salaries without attacking the top of the profession. Of course, in order to do so many pilots would have to change their thinking. Judging from many conversations I have had on this board (including this one), I sometimes doubt that will happen.

Let mgt attack our salaries. We shouldn't do it for them.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Once you guys get an airline job (which you point out that you don't have) you will see that it is not as simple as you'd like it all to be. Don't worry, we all wish it was simple, but it isn't.

In the meantime, please share some of that glue you are sniffing...it must be some serious stuff!

Thanks.

 

[Palerider957]

Regional pilots make money?? I thought we did this for free?? After all we should "all just be happy to have a job."

Fellas, regional pay at ALL levels SUCKS and doesn't show any signs of improving. My company is having a year of record growth and profits and still pays us a pittance--and it's considered a good contract?!?!

If the majors can keep salaries high, good for them....were still stuck in the cess pool where rampers, gate agents, and the guys sweeping the floor make more than we do.

 

[d.fitz]

I guess my point is that if it cant be explained maybe it doesnt make sense. Why isnt it simple?

No one in any other profession makes $250,000 per year while working as little as some of the 747 captains I know. You are right, I am not yet an airline pilot but I have worked as a professional in the aviation industry for many years. Just because an industry is making billions doesn't mean you should get paid more. However - I feel that regional pilots are RIDICULOUSLY underpaid.

In engineering for instance, there is not a 10 times disparity between the entry level engineer and a 20 year engineer - the salaries are spread more evenly among the levels.

I appreciate the problem more than you give me credit for, but I certainly wont understand any better by you telling me that I am "sniffing glue".

Once again IMHO... Maybe you should start by educating people so we know what we are getting into...

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think we will see a merging of pilot salaries. Anytime a few people have all the money the systems falls apart and a radical (or sometimes violent) redistribution of wealth happens.

I think the Delta and United captains have been making far too much in contrast to the Comair captain. While I don’t think the pay will end up equal, I think salaries at the major airlines will drop to perhaps a maximum of 150 or 180 thousand a year while salaries at the regional airlines like Comair will see a maximum of just slightly lower. This will mean the major airline pilots will continue to see a drop in salaries and the regional pilot salaries will continue to rise.

It seems logical to me, but what do you think?

It is logical, but airline pay is not a free market economy. Airline pay is a result of what ALPA can negotiate.

Right now, the ALPA Executive Counsel at Delta is pushing the idea that any pay cuts should be distributed through the entire Delta system, including Comair and ASA pilots.

ALPA is a democracy without any effective executive leadership, in other words, it is a mob of pilots that bends to the will of the most powerful group. Does it make sense for ASA and Comair pilots to "share the pain of bringing Delta back to prosperity" when Comair and ASA are the only profitable units of the company? Now ask, does it make Delta pilots feel better?

So you have your answer. It all depends on ALPA's negotiating agenda and this is the real reason why scope is so important from ALPA National's view. If some day there are enough "regional" pilots to out vote the "major" pilots there will be a huge shift in ALPA's negotiating agenda. The regional pilots would like to see a more equitable distribution of pilot wages, in recognition of the fact that piloting an RJ and a 777 are not different skills. In fact, the airplanes tend to get easier the bigger they are.

Block hour, ASM, ratio, type scope does not protect major airline pilot jobs. Look around the industry for proof that ALPA's scope policy has failed. However, the ratio scope plans are effective at placing caps on the number of "regional" pilots who might vote against the "major's" interests in ALPA. Hopefully the junior members at Delta and the other majors will figure this out one day and insist on change. They too are paying a price (in long term furloughs) to maintain the pre-deregulation salary structure for the most senior 5-10% of their seniority list.

The number of wide body Captains is an ever shinking number. All airline pilots and especially junior Delta pilots have their eyes on that "brass ring." However, it would make sense for ALPA to shift priorities to improving the entire profession.

Airline management sees a dollar as a dollar. They see pay as an expense - pay that ALPA can allocate to its members. This is the whole principle behind "interest based bargaining." Delta does not love Comair pilots, ASA pilots, Delta pilots, Chautauqua, Skwest, ACA, or Eagle pilots. We are a commodity. ALPA more or less decides what that commodity costs.

When you see a 777 Captain earning nearly $400,000 a year (line check airman at DAL), or a EMB120 FO making less than $19,000 a year - either way - thank ALPA.

 

[Palerider957]

~~~^~~~


You are my God

 

[FL000]

It is logical, but airline pay is not a free market economy. Airline pay is a result of what ALPA can negotiate.

Negotiated rates are examples of a free market economy. The "buyer" and the "seller" agree on a deal based on what each is able and willing to give up vs. gain. I thought this was the definition of free market economy.

You make it sound like ALPA goes in and imposes some sort of money grab on the company.

While ALPA has been able to negotiate outside of basic laws of economics in the past, I tend to think that Ralph is probably not off the mark in his prognostication.

 

[d.fitz]

To ~~~^~~~

Excellent post! As much as some people dont want to hear it I think you are right!

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Right now, the ALPA Executive Counsel at Delta is pushing the idea that any pay cuts should be distributed through the entire Delta system, including Comair and ASA pilots.

Really? Why have I not heard that in my almost daily conversations with my reps? I would be interested in hearing your source, and please don't tell me that you heard it on a message board. As of now, there have been NO dicsussions with the company, as DALPA is still completing the financial analysis.

Until you provide a source, I will continue to believe that you are inventing facts to further your agenda.

Perhaps I am wrong. I await your response.

 

[asarjfo]

The only place I have heard/read anything about ASA/Comair "sharing" in the pay cuts is on the ALPA board from some Delta pilots.

This usually comes after some proding by ASA RJDC supporters.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

That's the only place I have seen it too. I think some people are trying to stir up some trouble! There are a LOT of angry pilots about the cmr mec's decision, but I think that it is highly unlikely that our leadership would ask that dci takes cuts.

After all, we're getting replaced by them right now because they're too cheap. Why would we want to make them cheaper?