Questions for the ASA guys

[CRJ puppy]

Once you guys get an airline job (which you point out that you don't have) you will see that it is not as simple as you'd like it all to be. Don't worry, we all wish it was simple, but it isn't.

In the meantime, please share some of that glue you are sniffing...it must be some serious stuff!

Thanks.

 

[Palerider957]

Regional pilots make money?? I thought we did this for free?? After all we should "all just be happy to have a job."

Fellas, regional pay at ALL levels SUCKS and doesn't show any signs of improving. My company is having a year of record growth and profits and still pays us a pittance--and it's considered a good contract?!?!

If the majors can keep salaries high, good for them....were still stuck in the cess pool where rampers, gate agents, and the guys sweeping the floor make more than we do.

 

[d.fitz]

I guess my point is that if it cant be explained maybe it doesnt make sense. Why isnt it simple?

No one in any other profession makes $250,000 per year while working as little as some of the 747 captains I know. You are right, I am not yet an airline pilot but I have worked as a professional in the aviation industry for many years. Just because an industry is making billions doesn't mean you should get paid more. However - I feel that regional pilots are RIDICULOUSLY underpaid.

In engineering for instance, there is not a 10 times disparity between the entry level engineer and a 20 year engineer - the salaries are spread more evenly among the levels.

I appreciate the problem more than you give me credit for, but I certainly wont understand any better by you telling me that I am "sniffing glue".

Once again IMHO... Maybe you should start by educating people so we know what we are getting into...

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think we will see a merging of pilot salaries. Anytime a few people have all the money the systems falls apart and a radical (or sometimes violent) redistribution of wealth happens.

I think the Delta and United captains have been making far too much in contrast to the Comair captain. While I don’t think the pay will end up equal, I think salaries at the major airlines will drop to perhaps a maximum of 150 or 180 thousand a year while salaries at the regional airlines like Comair will see a maximum of just slightly lower. This will mean the major airline pilots will continue to see a drop in salaries and the regional pilot salaries will continue to rise.

It seems logical to me, but what do you think?

It is logical, but airline pay is not a free market economy. Airline pay is a result of what ALPA can negotiate.

Right now, the ALPA Executive Counsel at Delta is pushing the idea that any pay cuts should be distributed through the entire Delta system, including Comair and ASA pilots.

ALPA is a democracy without any effective executive leadership, in other words, it is a mob of pilots that bends to the will of the most powerful group. Does it make sense for ASA and Comair pilots to "share the pain of bringing Delta back to prosperity" when Comair and ASA are the only profitable units of the company? Now ask, does it make Delta pilots feel better?

So you have your answer. It all depends on ALPA's negotiating agenda and this is the real reason why scope is so important from ALPA National's view. If some day there are enough "regional" pilots to out vote the "major" pilots there will be a huge shift in ALPA's negotiating agenda. The regional pilots would like to see a more equitable distribution of pilot wages, in recognition of the fact that piloting an RJ and a 777 are not different skills. In fact, the airplanes tend to get easier the bigger they are.

Block hour, ASM, ratio, type scope does not protect major airline pilot jobs. Look around the industry for proof that ALPA's scope policy has failed. However, the ratio scope plans are effective at placing caps on the number of "regional" pilots who might vote against the "major's" interests in ALPA. Hopefully the junior members at Delta and the other majors will figure this out one day and insist on change. They too are paying a price (in long term furloughs) to maintain the pre-deregulation salary structure for the most senior 5-10% of their seniority list.

The number of wide body Captains is an ever shinking number. All airline pilots and especially junior Delta pilots have their eyes on that "brass ring." However, it would make sense for ALPA to shift priorities to improving the entire profession.

Airline management sees a dollar as a dollar. They see pay as an expense - pay that ALPA can allocate to its members. This is the whole principle behind "interest based bargaining." Delta does not love Comair pilots, ASA pilots, Delta pilots, Chautauqua, Skwest, ACA, or Eagle pilots. We are a commodity. ALPA more or less decides what that commodity costs.

When you see a 777 Captain earning nearly $400,000 a year (line check airman at DAL), or a EMB120 FO making less than $19,000 a year - either way - thank ALPA.

 

[Palerider957]

~~~^~~~


You are my God

 

[FL000]

It is logical, but airline pay is not a free market economy. Airline pay is a result of what ALPA can negotiate.

Negotiated rates are examples of a free market economy. The "buyer" and the "seller" agree on a deal based on what each is able and willing to give up vs. gain. I thought this was the definition of free market economy.

You make it sound like ALPA goes in and imposes some sort of money grab on the company.

While ALPA has been able to negotiate outside of basic laws of economics in the past, I tend to think that Ralph is probably not off the mark in his prognostication.

 

[d.fitz]

To ~~~^~~~

Excellent post! As much as some people dont want to hear it I think you are right!

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Right now, the ALPA Executive Counsel at Delta is pushing the idea that any pay cuts should be distributed through the entire Delta system, including Comair and ASA pilots.

Really? Why have I not heard that in my almost daily conversations with my reps? I would be interested in hearing your source, and please don't tell me that you heard it on a message board. As of now, there have been NO dicsussions with the company, as DALPA is still completing the financial analysis.

Until you provide a source, I will continue to believe that you are inventing facts to further your agenda.

Perhaps I am wrong. I await your response.

 

[asarjfo]

The only place I have heard/read anything about ASA/Comair "sharing" in the pay cuts is on the ALPA board from some Delta pilots.

This usually comes after some proding by ASA RJDC supporters.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

That's the only place I have seen it too. I think some people are trying to stir up some trouble! There are a LOT of angry pilots about the cmr mec's decision, but I think that it is highly unlikely that our leadership would ask that dci takes cuts.

After all, we're getting replaced by them right now because they're too cheap. Why would we want to make them cheaper?