Questioning this profession...

[freight dork]

I don't know why everybody thinks that foreign pilots would be willing to fly airliners for less money that American pilots are willing to do it for. I'm a contract pilot in the ATR and have flown as capt on 3 continents in the ATR and the USA job was by far my lowest paying job. Also the USA flight and duty time regulations are by far the worst for pilots in the USA. American pilots need to wake up and realize that although they may be the most experience pilots on the planet, they are the worst treated in terms of pay and and flight time and duty regulations.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't know why everybody thinks that foreign pilots would be willing to fly airliners for less money that American pilots are willing to do it for. I'm a contract pilot in the ATR and have flown as capt on 3 continents in the ATR and the USA job was by far my lowest paying job. Also the USA flight and duty time regulations are by far the worst for pilots in the USA. American pilots need to wake up and realize that although they may be the most experience pilots on the planet, they are the worst treated in terms of pay and and flight time and duty regulations.

Don't confuse Rez. with facts....He is proud of his ALPA talking points.....

 

[Dumb Pilot]

There is no way I would move overseas to fly.

The lines to get into this industry are so long because they don't know the industry has changed. They haven't experienced it first hand so they still think there is the great pay off at some point.

There is no great pay off. Just 10-12 nights months a month in a hotel room away from your family. What is that worth?

When you interview and get the offer, then discuss it with your wife and you and her honestly make the decision to reject a $900,000+ thousand dollar 5 year contract because you will have 3 days less a month off, then you can make that statement, for the time being you are just talking out your a$$.

Wages won't go up while there is a surplus of pilots. A strong union can only do so much (and it may even help a little), but then it's back to the basics - supply and demand curves. You can't just say, "pay us more or we don't work," because then there WILL be foreign pilots flying US RJ's. Believe me, I want to be able to make money flying big jets 121 as much as the next guy, but until then, it's Air Attack for me.

Funny, right now there are American pilots being interviewed and hired in the LAN/ Peru/Chile companies because Latin pilots will not take the low salary that they are paying, but lower paid American pilot will. I'm sorry to bring it to your attention but the opposite is true, the American pilots are bringing the standards in Latin America down in terms of salaries. I know that this is hard for you to swallow, but it is for your own growth.

 

[Freight Dog]

To do the same job you do now for 30-50% less? No thanks.

Proof? Look at how much piddly RJ guys make outside the US... We are the pilot equivalent of Chinese/Mexican cheap labor.

 

[olympus593]

Many times pilots don't care about other pilots.....Most pilots only care about themselves....



We get screwed by unions? How so? Say it ain't so...
:laugh:

Joe didn't you get your new contract because of your Union?

Give me some example of how the union screw you more than management?

You are pro management, you know it at least don't be a coward and face up to it.

 

[crxpilot]

To do the same job you do now for 30-50% less? No thanks.

I dont understand this argument. There is a pilot shortage overseas and they pay better. Why would foreign ownership here suddenly change that?

 

[BoilerUP]

Screw the MBA track...know how many 20-somethings are out there now with a really expensive piece of paper that are absolutely pissed they'll have to "settle" for a non six-figure job? Well, if they can find anything that side of being a Starbucks barista...

If you really want a piece of education that will provide for you and your family in the future, electrical and mechanical engineering are the ticket...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe didn't you get your new contract because of your Union?

Give me some example of how the union screw you more than management?

You are pro management, you know it at least don't be a coward and face up to it.

Olympus....read more carefully before you post....Rez alluded to the fact that we get screwed by unions....I found that interesting coming from the resident ALPA cheerleader....

Yes the union negotiates the contract....However the union hasn't figured out how to stop management from moving flying to the cheaper units....Given a strong contract vs. strong job security....I would rather take the job security.....

I don't trust either management or the unions...they both have agendas....The difference is that I'm paying the union to represent my interests....

 

[spitfire1500]

Here's another thing that I'm contending with...

My son wants to be a pilot too. How do I justify spending 100k or so on his education/flight training only for him to make 20-30k a year for quite a while?

Is it worth it?

I also read somewhere that the number of new student certificates dropped off significantly after 9/11...

Is this industry likely going to change? Who knows...

Get him to go to school and major in something else that he likes and is marketable. While working learn to fly, that was the path my family sent me down. After he is flying he will have something to fall back on if needed.

 

[fly4unclesam]

A lot of folks have commented on flying in the military. I do and must say the flying is good and the stability is nice. Sure, there are sacrifices, but I still enjoy it and feel satisfied in what I am doing.

That said, I am rapidly approaching my 20 years and could retire. I have always wanted to go to the airlines but I am beginning to wonder if that is the best move. I have a good record and stand a good chance of staying beyond 20 and possibly continue to be promoted...if I want to. Unfortuantly, if I stay, I will probably move on to a desk job and my flying days will basically be over. But, I will be making a good salary and still be adding to my pension every year. Can anyone give me a reason not to stay in? Like I said, being an airline pilot has been a dream since I was a boy. I am just looking for a reason to retire and give the airline thing a try...that's what my heart says. But, when I use my head, I question that thinking. Since I am not in the industry, I would appreciate any thoughts/insight.

Thanks

 

[PHXFLYR]

Spitfire,

Not neccesarily. I've talked with alot of our pilots with undergraduate and advanced degrees in other career fields . Most tell me that there has been such major advances in their former fields since they left,they wouldn't be very marketable without extensive retraining.

PHXFLYR

 

[Bringupthebird]

My son wants to be a pilot too. How do I justify spending 100k or so on his education/flight training only for him to make 20-30k a year for quite a while?

Don't pay one dime towards his flight training!

If he really wants to be a pilot, let him create the path that gets him there. Let the choices be his. Let the sacrifices be his and in the end let the accomplishment be his. By taking away all the investment (both financial and emotional) you make the career of airline pilot a throwaway job, easily gained, easily lost when the first hard times come along. Plus he'll resent you for all he "owes" you when he's applying for a job at Lowes with a degree in Aviation Sciences.

 

[crxpilot]

A lot of folks have commented on flying in the military. I do and must say the flying is good and the stability is nice. Sure, there are sacrifices, but I still enjoy it and feel satisfied in what I am doing.

That said, I am rapidly approaching my 20 years and could retire. I have always wanted to go to the airlines but I am beginning to wonder if that is the best move. I have a good record and stand a good chance of staying beyond 20 and possibly continue to be promoted...if I want to. Unfortuantly, if I stay, I will probably move on to a desk job and my flying days will basically be over. But, I will be making a good salary and still be adding to my pension every year. Can anyone give me a reason not to stay in? Like I said, being an airline pilot has been a dream since I was a boy. I am just looking for a reason to retire and give the airline thing a try...that's what my heart says. But, when I use my head, I question that thinking. Since I am not in the industry, I would appreciate any thoughts/insight.

Thanks

What's the old saying....."I would rather die living, than to live dying"
When you are on your deathbed, do you really want to be telling yourself "could've, would've, should've"?

 

[hockeypilot44]

Stay in the military.

 

[727C47]

follow your heart,and trust your gut, the safe thing is not always the best thing, if you want to fly,FLY !!!, find a way.

 

[varkdrver]

fly4unclesam

The industry is shell shocked right now...more troubling news to come ...none of the majors will be hiring nearterm. Just keep your nose in the industry and make the break when the hiring starts again. Don't know what your timing is, I'd guess it'll be a slow 2009 for the industry.

 

[Orionpilot]

A lot of folks have commented on flying in the military. I do and must say the flying is good and the stability is nice. Sure, there are sacrifices, but I still enjoy it and feel satisfied in what I am doing.

That said, I am rapidly approaching my 20 years and could retire. I have always wanted to go to the airlines but I am beginning to wonder if that is the best move. I have a good record and stand a good chance of staying beyond 20 and possibly continue to be promoted...if I want to. Unfortuantly, if I stay, I will probably move on to a desk job and my flying days will basically be over. But, I will be making a good salary and still be adding to my pension every year. Can anyone give me a reason not to stay in? Like I said, being an airline pilot has been a dream since I was a boy. I am just looking for a reason to retire and give the airline thing a try...that's what my heart says. But, when I use my head, I question that thinking. Since I am not in the industry, I would appreciate any thoughts/insight.

Thanks

Once you hit your twenty years, you're working for 1/2 pay. That being said, it really comes down to are you enjoying your career, how do you feel about flying a desk, Pentagon, staff etc, what age are your kids - more moves, school changes etc. Right now its a no-brainer to stay in as virtually no one is hiring, very similar to after 911. But nothing lasts forever and eventually age 65 will start to take effect and there will be a LOT of retirements. From my own experience after 20 years my wife and I had enough and it was time to do something else. Flying for the airlines is a good job but a lousy career. I enjoy the job but not the company I work for. Timing is everything and if you can time it right and FEDEX/UPS/SWA are hiring and you are lucky enough to get hired you're golden. Otherwise stay in, retire as an O-6 with 24-26 years and work part time the rest of your life. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Hazen]

Go the military route. It is better training, and the flying is a lot more fun and challenging. Airline flying is better than sitting behind a desk all day, but that is about it. If he wants to pursue an airline job after the military that is fine. Maybe he can stay in the reserves to make extra money and have a back up in case the airline thing doesn't work out. I think the military route gives more options later in life. If the arilines are not hiring you can get out and find something else to do with your military experience.

 

[BoilerUP]

Many people aren't interested in a career in military aviation, except when times are bad when it is perceived to be "more stable". That's a pretty bad reason to become an officer and a military aviator, no?

Others, like myself, wanted to be military aviators since childhood but for whatever reason beyond their control weren't qualified.

/3x medical DQee

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Hey Rez,

You think Obama is really part of the answer? Watch this and let me know?? 11 minutes, but it is sure telling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY