Question for US Air and AWA Pilots

[Dash27]

What are your thoughts on the flow through agreement for Piedmont and PSA pilots? Will it ever happen? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel for us?? How long is it going to take for Mainline to recall all of its furloughs?

 

[FN FAL]

They already have a flow through for regionals, from the left seat of a CRJ to the left seat of a Beech 99, at age 60.

We'll leave a light on for ya.

 

[linecheck]

As a current AWA pilot, and former PSA pilot, I hope that we can work out a flow through agreement with Piedmont and PSA. Unfortunately, its way down on a long list of "to do's." ie. seniority integration, contract talks, etc. Maybe sometime next year it can be addressed.

 

[PositiveRate]

I'd have to agree that a flow through is pretty far down the list. That doesn't mean it isn't a real possibility, though.

It's anyone's guess as to how long recalls will take. It may take 4 or 5 yrs, but with the E190 in the mix and associated payscales, you may see a near total bypass of that right seat - that scenario could lead to off the street hiring sooner than later and possibly spur a flowthrough to fill the slots. It's all just guesses and opinions right now, though....nothing official, so don't hold your breath.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I agree with positive rate, I think we'll see street hires into the 190. But that will be the only hiring until integration is complete and the furloughees are recalled.

 

[Rabble]

Someone likes S&M apparently...

 

[Green]

I wouldn't count on the flowthrough being honored. My guess would be you would have to get hired off the street. Of course I've been wrong many times....

 

[MK82Man]

Flow though, doubtful; but off the street, I think yes

Dash 27 – I’ll give you my 2 cents

The Flow through thing is doubtful any time in the near future. Why, there is just too much stuff to be negotiated right now and I see that as very low on the priority scale. I doubt it would even be considered in the currently being discussed combined contract, which means 5 years in the future for the follow-on contract at best. But I do think there is a ray of sunshine coming for Piedmont and PSA pilots (and any others) if you want to be employed at the new US Airways and here’s why.

East Mainline Furloughed dudes had to be called at about 2 to 1 rate to get the 50+ guys for the 757 FO seats the company just recalled for. Ok, if you are on furlough and by-pass a recall for a 757 seat, you must have a pretty good gig going, tremendous faith in future recalls, or plan on never coming back. In fairness, some were pretty senior and might have had enough with the airline industry. With the EMR190 that is now cranking up for the Fall/Winter, here is what I think might occur. The company has to decide in July and August for staffing numbers for training in Sept/Oct/Nov to bring the A/C into revenue service in Jan 07 as advertised. Once they make that decision, the will begin to work through the furloughed East list for the FO seats, offering the East furloughs first opportunity at the EMB FO seat. My guess is that very few East Furloughs (less than 10%) will take the 190 FO seat. Pay has been reported numerous times on the Hangar, but 2006-2008, even with 6 years seniority the max is 52 an hour (starting 41 if you are at the bottom of the scale). If you were an East Furlough with anything more than 1 year seniority, you’d make 60ish+ an hour in a non-EMB FO seat, so why come back and lock in low 50s for two full years with the EMB equipment lock. Why not just bypass until you can get a non-EMB FO chair at your (2,3,4,5,6 etc year pay for longevity rate, 65 - 85 an hour) rate? If 90+% of the furloughed dudes bypass, that should add up to “off the street” hiring in late Fall/early winter as the company staffs the FO seat. How many and timing is TBD. I don’t know what the JFJ guys can do or will do.

OK, what about Captain slots for the EMB 190? There shouldn’t be a single West Captain leave his 125+ rate for an EMB Captain slot. Top of the scale for EMB Capt, 2006-2008, is 94.74 if you have 10 years seniority, so who’s giving up 30 bucks an hour pay …. Nobody on the West side. I don’t think there would be any East Mainline Captain do it either simply because of the pay issue, maybe one or two who are on Reserve and just can’t stand being on Reserve. Now I think there will be a few takers on the East Mainline FO side – why? They have displaced Captains, who are FOs that simply want to be a Captain again and the move from FO East Mainline (even with all their seniority) to EMB Captain would be close to pay neutral (some might suffer a pay loss). Some of the East FOs have been sitting reserve for a long time and would be more than willing to trade their reserve lifestyle for the EMB Captain Chair even if they lose money. Most would gain Quality of Life as they take years of seniority to the EMB system (vacation and trip bidding, etc). So I think that will cause movement in the EAST FO currently employed list which will accelerate the “movement/pace of calls” on the furloughed list. On the West side, FOs who have anything less than four years of seniority will take a good look at the EMB 190 Captain seats. 2 year guys would go from 60 (FO) to 80 (Captain), four year guys would go from 75 to 84. If you have five years you’d still get a pay raise, but also an equipment lock for two years. If you have 5 years of seniority on the West you probably are looking at upgrade w/in two years, so why lock in the EMB Capt pay when you could be making the 30 more an hour at non-EMB Captain pay. Plus with 5 years of FO seniority your life is pretty good, why trade that for 4/5 dollars and hour and the possibility of being on reserve. Basing and how we are going to fly the 190 has yet to be announced and of course that could impact dudes decisions (where you live, kids in school, commutes, your guess is as good as mine).

Now, BIG CAVEAT, East and West continue to argue over the staffing of the 190, but something must be decided in the next 60-120 days or January 2007 start date could be in jeopardy. Expect the East guys to stall as long as possible to try to capture as many EMB seats just trough timing. So what impact does that have on Dash 27 and his compadres – movement on the East FO side of the house as they move out to the EMB Captain Seats. Movement on the West FO side of the house as well as they move out to the Captain EMB 190 seats. That will accelerate the pressure on the currently furloughed dudes to make up their mind on how/when to accept a recall. The company will offer all the furloughed dudes a 190 seat; but, once offered a non-EMB FO seat and the company has gotten through the entire list, guys at the bottom then must accept a non-190 FO seat recall or will have been considered to by pass for good. As staffing for the mainline FO seats becomes clearer, training for mainline non-EMB FO seats should pick up in Early 2007. What I see is that “off the street” hiring to the EMB 190 could occur in less than 6 months. For Piedmont & PSA who want to start at Mainline US Airways, this is probably the quickest way in. Once you are in, you are a Mainline US Airways pilot and can bid for what ever your seniority can hold. For those who are lucky enough to start in Jan 2007, your pay would double in Jan 2009 when you bid out of the 190 FO seat into a non-190 FO seat. In March 2007, it will have been 2 years since we hired FOs on the West – we need some now and will need more then. For East furloughees, there should be a great chance to come to work w/in a year (really give it some serious thought) and for anyone else, there will be EMB 190 seats w/in six months. Good luck and despite the negative stuff you read/hear on the merger (complainers always seem to have loud voices); I’m confident it is going to be a great airline in the future and am very optimistic. As long as we stay the same size; just based on retirements, medicals, and system leakers, we will need pilots in 2007. How many of the furloughees will come back is anyone’s guess and is exactly that – a guess – until we run the list. If you want to work here, dust the resume and stay in touch with the folks you know working here.

 

[m80drvr]

Yeah ... what he said

 

[Doug Parker]

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Yeah, hire the Poolies !!!



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