Question for those applying to NWA,UAL,DAl

[C-17 Driver]

I wasn't trying to compare a regional career to a military career, though apparently you misunderstand the situation many regional pilots find themselves in. A 10 year regional captain faces much the same dilemma as someone who is "recently separated military". He (or she) likely makes a very good living has a good schedule and has a fairly stable position in the company (as stable as any position in an airline can be). To go to a 'major' he will have to give all that up on what amounts to a long term gamble. Will the regional pilot's career be better off if he moves on? The military pilot faces the same challenges. I digress because that really wasn't my point.

To understand my point you have to know the punchline...

How can you tell if a military pilot walks into a room?


...anyone?

He will be the one hitting on your wife.

Excuse us for being proud of what we do. I'm sorry you feel some resentment, but it isn't going to change.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

It is great to have choices, If you have another source of income or are young enough that an investment of 5 or 6 years to break even economically is doable for you, then by all means apply to the majors because the future benefits outweigh the short term low wages. For some folks is better just to stay put or to look for other alternatives (corporate, contract work, etc.) It depends on how many years you got left and what you are looking for in the next 10, 20 years. I passed on an offer at a major that some of you might find to be your dream gig! To me it wasn't worth it. You have to make the decision that suits you and your family best

 

[DrewBlows]

He will be the one hitting on your wife.

Excuse us for being proud of what we do. I'm sorry you feel some resentment, but it isn't going to change.

I don't feel any resentment. That's not the punchline I was looking for.


How do you know when a military pilot walks in a room...

















...he'll tell you.





Just poking a little fun, don't take it too seriously.:laugh:

Hopefully you see my original point now.

 

[highsky]

He will be the one hitting on your wife.

That's funny!

 

[Scrapdog]

I don't feel any resentment. That's not the punchline I was looking for.


How do you know when a military pilot walks in a room...

















...he'll tell you.





Just poking a little fun, don't take it too seriously.:laugh:

Hopefully you see my original point now.

Dude, we saw the stupid cliche punchline well prior to you having to repeat yourself.

C-17 Driver - good on ya...very funny and yet so true.

Here's one for you Drew: How do you know when a civilian pilot walks in the room? Because he has to be the first clown to tell a stupid joke about how do you know when a military pilot walks in a room...

Sincerely - a very proud military pilot

PS - if you need my resume, please shoot me a PM.

 

[C-17 Driver]

Dude, we saw the stupid cliche punchline well prior to you having to repeat yourself.

C-17 Driver - good on ya...very funny and yet so true.

Here's one for you Drew: How do you know when a civilian pilot walks in the room? Because he has to be the first clown to tell a stupid joke about how do you know when a military pilot walks in a room...

Sincerely - a very proud military pilot

PS - if you need my resume, please shoot me a PM.

Scrap Dog, I was wondering when you were going to chime in here...

DrewBlows...no offense given or taken. I understand your point. I do not feel entitled to anything because of my military service. I'm on pins and needles like everyone else who is hoping for a decent airline job. I think that some like to talk about their "resumes" because in the active duty AF, there are not too many pilots that are still flying and have over 5000 hours. When a fighter guy has 3000+ hours, that is saying a lot, because if you were to look at his sortie count, that is a lot of up and downs and is a very respectable career total. To the person who does not know that, they would think that 3000 hours is not a big deal because they reached that milestone in their mid-20s. To give you an idea, here is an average hour count based on rank/time in service for an airlift guy (can't help out with Fighter numbers...sorry Scrap Dog)

2Lt - 2 years in service 300-700 hours
1Lt- 4 years in service 700-1400 hours
Capt- 4-10 years service: 1400-2800 hrs
Maj 10-16 yrs service (w/ 3 year desk job in the mix): 3000-4500 hrs
Lt Col 16+ yrs service 4500 hrs plus (unless he is a fast burner and hasn't flown the line since he/she was a captain and only has 1500 hrs. There are wing commanders with less than 2500 hrs TT which is pathetic in my book)
Colonel 18+ yrs service: fuggedaboudit....they don't fly...they're management.

I hope you see my point. By stating our "resume" by saying how many years we have served or how many hours we have, we are trying to give you an idea of the level of experience we have.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I see your point, and now that it's been brought up I'll watch for myself doing it. However, there is one huge difference between your regional example and the military experience. When you started at a regional did you have to sign a 8 year contract that was really more like a ten year commitment since your 8 years don't start counting until you are through with training. At the end of that 10 years did you seriously have to consider staying because of substantial financial incentives offered for staying, not to mention the decent pension they dangle in front of you for just 10 more years of work. Can you see how it is really a bigger decision for military types than just leaving a regional for a major.

Ha!

How about the current regional FO's out there...

Let's see....

Flight School Loans: $1700/month
Gross Monthly Income $1600/month

Becoming an Air Line Pilot without looking at the ROI?

Priceless....


The CIV guys in the 1990's would stuff whatever they could in thier car and drive from one sh!tty 135 operator to the next trying to get time, build time, all without getting violated... they were totally on thier own without a Defense Budget to cloth, feed and house them.... not that a stateroom on The Big Grey Boat was "housing". Medical insurance?..... couldn't afford it!

My point.....

We all bust as$ to fly jets in this country...

The MIL guys too.... heck in the MIL it is Squadron first, family second.... still married? You are one lucky SOB!

So , lets all agree that we are all cool....


Cool?

 

[Andy]

A little off topic, but why do you military guys always feel compelled to read us your resume?

PLENTY of civilian guys post what they've been doing for the last few years - ie 'I've been an RJ Capt at x for three years now...'

Why the stereotyping?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Why the stereotyping?

You mean like the stereotype that the military pilot is the one hitting on your wife.? Posted by a military pilot.

The point is that there is a perception among civilians that military pilots don't think we've sufficiently paid our dues. Many of us have been berated many times like this, especially by double breasted pilots in a jumpseat or while jumpseating.

So when we get a military pilot who we perceive to be talking down to us, we go into "here we go again" mode and flame right back. Salt in the wound from years of being told mil pilots are better, despite their overall lower flight time, because they got shot at. As said above, most of us risked our lives to get here too.

 

[C-17 Driver]

You mean like the stereotype that the military pilot is the one hitting on your wife.? Posted by a military pilot.

The point is that there is a perception among civilians that military pilots don't think we've sufficiently paid our dues. Many of us have been berated many times like this, especially by double breasted pilots in a jumpseat or while jumpseating.

So when we get a military pilot who we perceive to be talking down to us, we go into "here we go again" mode and flame right back. Salt in the wound from years of being told mil pilots are better, despite their overall lower flight time, because they got shot at. As said above, most of us risked our lives to get here too.

Wasn't aware that I was "tallking down to you" when I said I had 10 years of service. Wasn't aware that my words were salt in the wound. Wasn't aware that you risked your life as well. I said earlier that I wasn't going to get into a pissing contest about it. Someone else will take the bait on your post, but not me.

Good on you for your aviation credentials. I do not judge and refuse to judge my self-worth by comparing my situation to yours and others like you so please don't assume that I am trying to compete with anyone. Read my previous post regarding why we offer a glimpse at our backgrounds.


You're kidding... right.... about the stereotype response? That joke that Drew Blows offered up is so old an I treated it like the hanging curveball that it was and I happened to be the first one to hit. I have trouble believing you took it seriously. If you did, it might be a classic case of confirmation bias.

I am honestly trying to be cordial and gentlemanly here and if I am not, please let me know. I admit, that I didn't take the high road on the wife joke, but it seems that most of you saw the intended sarcasm. I would venture to guess that some non-mil types saw it as funny as well.

Mr. Pennekamp. For the Record: I do not see you as inferior. I do not look down on your career path. I respect that you likely worked your butt off and invested lots of personal time and money to get where you are. I too would get the daggers out if someone berated me for their perceived lack of respect and I would try to set the record straight. I simply don't see (other than the wife comment...see above regarding intended sarcasm) where anywhere in my posts where I was wearing my credentials on my sleeve.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Why does this stupid discussion keep coming up? There are great former mil. and civ. guys to fly with as there are douchbags from each side. Imho, it has more to do with personality than background. But I will throw this fuel on the fire. Navy guys seem the most fun and relaxed with Air Force Academy being the more nitnoidy. It was explained to me buy a couple of Naval Academy grads I just flew with that the Navy guys look at the rule book and say if it does not say we can't we can whereas the AF boys say if it does not say we can we can't. Anyway as a civilian, I do think some of us get a chip. Remember, just get your seniority number and it does not matter. I have a former Thunderbird and Blue Angel that will always be junior to me, but both are great guys.

 

[DrewBlows]

I hope you see my point. By stating our "resume" by saying how many years we have served or how many hours we have, we are trying to give you an idea of the level of experience we have.

I understand you point completely and did when you originally posted. I really didn't think much of it because I have an understanding of how the military works as far as commitments and flight time. I only posted because you seemed not to understand why someone might question a military guy "posting his resume".

There is definitely a perception by some that military guys feel superior to civilians in this industry. Additionally, I suspect most on this site understand (at least basically) the military career and don't need to be reminded why someone in the military is applying to majors (because you can and it makes a whole lot of sense).

Forgive me for posting the joke three times. I had hoped most have heard it (I still suspect they have). What I didn't say is you could tell the same joke about any pilot and it would be equally valid. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want to be stereotyped because I don't feel I fit that mold and suspect most guys (girls) don't either. I don't think C17 Driver is the stereotypical 'military pilot', but he risks being perceived as one by "posting his resume", so to speak.

Plus, this is an interesting conversation, though I think all that can be said has already.

 

[Lear70]

Plus, this is an interesting conversation, though I think all that can be said has already.

How about "everyone STFU and move on"...?

Just kidding... kinda... we really need that dead horse emoticon.

There are tools in every profession and from every walk of life prior to the airline world. There are also great guys and gals. I think we can just leave it at that, since no one really meant any disrespect,,,

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wasn't aware that I was "tallking down to you" when I said I had 10 years of service. Wasn't aware that my words were salt in the wound. Wasn't aware that you risked your life as well. I said earlier that I wasn't going to get into a pissing contest about it. Someone else will take the bait on your post, but not me.

Good on you for your aviation credentials. I do not judge and refuse to judge my self-worth by comparing my situation to yours and others like you so please don't assume that I am trying to compete with anyone. Read my previous post regarding why we offer a glimpse at our backgrounds.


You're kidding... right.... about the stereotype response? That joke that Drew Blows offered up is so old an I treated it like the hanging curveball that it was and I happened to be the first one to hit. I have trouble believing you took it seriously. If you did, it might be a classic case of confirmation bias.

I am honestly trying to be cordial and gentlemanly here and if I am not, please let me know. I admit, that I didn't take the high road on the wife joke, but it seems that most of you saw the intended sarcasm. I would venture to guess that some non-mil types saw it as funny as well.

Mr. Pennekamp. For the Record: I do not see you as inferior. I do not look down on your career path. I respect that you likely worked your butt off and invested lots of personal time and money to get where you are. I too would get the daggers out if someone berated me for their perceived lack of respect and I would try to set the record straight. I simply don't see (other than the wife comment...see above regarding intended sarcasm) where anywhere in my posts where I was wearing my credentials on my sleeve.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further.

C-17,
Thanks for the polite, professional response.

I did see the sarcasm in your wife comment. As you said, you gave me the hanging curve ball and I took a swing.

I'll agree that your original post wasn't that bad. I re-read it and agree you weren't really reading resumes or talking down to anyone. It just reminded me of the issue, pushed that "mil guy talking down to me" button, and I used you to make a point about how MANY (not all) military pilots act and how it affects us. Really wasn't even part of this thread.

I think the point has been made and the horse has been beaten to death. Thanks for the lively discussion, no ill will intended. :beer:

 

[ExAF]

All Together Now...

Kum bai yaaaaaaaaaa

 

[DrewBlows]

Kum bai yaaaaaaaaaa

Kumaya, my lord, kumbaya...




Harmony using the 'quote' feature.

 

[Huggy Bear]

Cobraair,
Thanks for the navy endorsement. Seriously. However, I think you may have typoed your quote. Navy guys look to see if their is a rule that says they can't do something. No rule, go do it. Air Force guys look to see if there is a rule that says they can do something. But, what do I know, that is probably just a stereotype we created.

Edit. Nevermind. You had it right. But without commas that sentence hurts my eyes.

 

[Hvy]

A little off topic, but why do you military guys always feel compelled to read us your resume?

Do you feel threatened by that?

 

[JetMidway]

Widebodies!

Leave the Flight Attendants out of this