Question for those applying to NWA,UAL,DAl

[Idiot Police]

These airlines got rid of a bunch of guys, then cut pay and compensation to an unbearable level. So unbearable that, when recalled, many of these guys would not return. But you guys come running with bells on. Doesnt that make you, at best, replacement workers? Isnt there another name for that?

 

[CRJ_Driver]

These airlines got rid of a bunch of guys, then cut pay and compensation to an unbearable level. So unbearable that, when recalled, many of these guys would not return. But you guys come running with bells on. Doesnt that make you, at best, replacement workers? Isnt there another name for that?

Capitalism?

No, it doesn't make them replacement workers. When a guy doesn't return, it's like turning down a job offer for something better.

Unfortunately, there is something better than a good ol' Legacy or major as they used to be called.

 

[C-17 Driver]

These airlines got rid of a bunch of guys, then cut pay and compensation to an unbearable level. So unbearable that, when recalled, many of these guys would not return. But you guys come running with bells on. Doesnt that make you, at best, replacement workers? Isnt there another name for that?

That sure seems like an accusatory question, kind of like asking "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

I am not running with bells on and no, I am not a scab. I did 10+ years of Active Duty Air Force and have recently separated and have joined the ranks of the AF Reserve. Many of my fellow military pilots are getting hired and I do not see any of them as "replacement workers." It just so happens that many of us are available to get out of the military and are taking advantage of the hiring. If my AF commitment were up back in 2002-2004ish, I probably would have signed the AF pilot bonus and stayed in for 20. That is not the case because at the time that I was available to get out, the airlines (majors and major LCC's) are on the upswing. Do you still think people like me are "replacement workers?"

Please clarify your question because it sure seems that you are lumping everyone in as scabs.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Or how about the possibility that even though things are not great at the legacies right now, they are still far better than the current operations we fly for?????

 

[John Pennekamp]

That sure seems like an accusatory question, kind of like asking "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

I am not running with bells on and no, I am not a scab. I did 10+ years of Active Duty Air Force and have recently separated and have joined the ranks of the AF Reserve. Many of my fellow military pilots are getting hired and I do not see any of them as "replacement workers." It just so happens that many of us are available to get out of the military and are taking advantage of the hiring. If my AF commitment were up back in 2002-2004ish, I probably would have signed the AF pilot bonus and stayed in for 20. That is not the case because at the time that I was available to get out, the airlines (majors and major LCC's) are on the upswing. Do you still think people like me are "replacement workers?"

Please clarify your question because it sure seems that you are lumping everyone in as scabs.

A little off topic, but why do you military guys always feel compelled to read us your resume?

 

[Lear70]

Just read Idiot Police's profile under his avatar. It explains everything in his post.

DAL is a different animal - most of their pilots ACCEPTED recall. We lost quite a few back to NWA, not so many to UAL.

I wouldn't blame a regional guy looking into one of those airlines and taking a gamble, especially if he/she was at one of the regionals with relatively crappy QOL.

Leave a LCC like JB or AAI for NWA or UAL? I wouldn't, but that's my personal choice based on how their pilots are being treated right now and the loss of not ONLY pay for the first few years, but QOL to an intolerably-low level.

Your mileage may vary... :beer:

 

[C-17 Driver]

A little off topic, but why do you military guys always feel compelled to read us your resume?

Saying that I did 10 years in the military is equivalent to giving you a resume? I'm not going to get in a pissing contest of military vs. civilian. Bernoulli treats us all the same.

Back on topic. I read other posts from Idiot Police and I wish I read them before my original post because I would not have wasted my time with a response.

Thanks Lear...prior LJ35 driver myself..

 

[DrewBlows]

Saying that I did 10 years in the military is equivalent to giving you a resume? I'm not going to get in a pissing contest of military vs. civilian. Bernoulli treats us all the same.

I think his point is, if your background were, say, a regional airline, you wouldn't say "I did 10+ years at a regional airline and have recently separated. Many of my fellow regional pilots are getting hired and I do not see any of them as "replacement workers." That sounds silly, but you see it a lot from military pilots.

I understand you are proud of your military service and thank you for it, but if you don't want to be the punchline to the old joke 'how do you know when a military pilot walks in a room?', you may want to keep a lower profile.

 

[Networ-King]

I think his point is, if your background were, say, a regional airline, you wouldn't say "I did 10+ years at a regional airline and have recently separated. Many of my fellow regional pilots are getting hired and I do not see any of them as "replacement workers." That sounds silly, but you see it a lot from military pilots.

I understand you are proud of your military service and thank you for it, but if you don't want to be the punchline to the old joke 'how do you know when a military pilot walks in a room?', you may want to keep a lower profile.

Thanks alot you d!ck, I just spewed coffee on my computer, through my nose, reading your funny a s s post.......

Now leave these military guys alone, so they can get hired at the airlines and mil out for the first year cause first year pay sucks........

 

[Bill Mostellar]

A little off topic, but why do you military guys always feel compelled to read us your resume?

I didn't read it as giving his resume.

Since all military pilots incur a 8 to 10 year commitment, he was explaining why he wasn't able to get out in the 2002-2004 time frame.

I don't know of any Commuter airline that has a similar commitment.

I wish you success!
William
AKA Bill
Former Moderator

 

[Huggy Bear]

I think his point is, if your background were, say, a regional airline, you wouldn't say "I did 10+ years at a regional airline and have recently separated. Many of my fellow regional pilots are getting hired and I do not see any of them as "replacement workers." That sounds silly, but you see it a lot from military pilots.

I understand you are proud of your military service and thank you for it, but if you don't want to be the punchline to the old joke 'how do you know when a military pilot walks in a room?', you may want to keep a lower profile.

I see your point, and now that it's been brought up I'll watch for myself doing it. However, there is one huge difference between your regional example and the military experience. When you started at a regional did you have to sign a 8 year contract that was really more like a ten year commitment since your 8 years don't start counting until you are through with training. At the end of that 10 years did you seriously have to consider staying because of substantial financial incentives offered for staying, not to mention the decent pension they dangle in front of you for just 10 more years of work. Can you see how it is really a bigger decision for military types than just leaving a regional for a major.

 

[Heavy Set]

These airlines got rid of a bunch of guys, then cut pay and compensation to an unbearable level. So unbearable that, when recalled, many of these guys would not return. But you guys come running with bells on. Doesnt that make you, at best, replacement workers? Isnt there another name for that?

You sound stupid. When an airline goes bankrupt and a judge is seeing over the deal, unions can't do much. Yes, pay was cut probably, but those airlines will eventually do better and wages will likely come back up, maybe not to the previous level, but higher. Some furloughed pilots may decide to stay at Airtran vs coming back to Delta or Northwest, but they will always wonder if they could attain part of what they had pre-9-11. It may get better for those airlines some day, or you can stay on your 717 or itty-bitty mini bus. But, comparing them to a skab is stupid.

 

[contrail67]

These airlines got rid of a bunch of guys, then cut pay and compensation to an unbearable level. So unbearable that, when recalled, many of these guys would not return. But you guys come running with bells on. Doesnt that make you, at best, replacement workers? Isnt there another name for that?

The guys/gals that did not come back had a choice and they might have found something better while on furlough. You cannot blame them for that..they had the choice. Do you not meet qualifications of the ones hiring?
What makes this any of your business anyway.

 

[instructordude]

These airlines got rid of a bunch of guys, then cut pay and compensation to an unbearable level. So unbearable that, when recalled, many of these guys would not return. But you guys come running with bells on. Doesnt that make you, at best, replacement workers? Isnt there another name for that?

Widebodies!

 

[TWA Dude]

It's almost funny how many self-assigned FI airline career gurus look down on pilots actually wanting to work for a legacy carrier. It's simple: when you apply at a UAL/NWA/USA and the like you're not just looking at the current crappy contracts but at the future potential. Periodic furloughs aside, where will most (younger) pilots enjoy a secure career: regionals or legacies? It seems obvious to me.

 

[contrail67]

Good post..agreed.

 

[DrewBlows]

I see your point, and now that it's been brought up I'll watch for myself doing it. However, there is one huge difference between your regional example and the military experience. When you started at a regional did you have to sign a 8 year contract that was really more like a ten year commitment since your 8 years don't start counting until you are through with training. At the end of that 10 years did you seriously have to consider staying because of substantial financial incentives offered for staying, not to mention the decent pension they dangle in front of you for just 10 more years of work. Can you see how it is really a bigger decision for military types than just leaving a regional for a major.

I wasn't trying to compare a regional career to a military career, though apparently you misunderstand the situation many regional pilots find themselves in. A 10 year regional captain faces much the same dilemma as someone who is "recently separated military". He (or she) likely makes a very good living has a good schedule and has a fairly stable position in the company (as stable as any position in an airline can be). To go to a 'major' he will have to give all that up on what amounts to a long term gamble. Will the regional pilot's career be better off if he moves on? The military pilot faces the same challenges. I digress because that really wasn't my point.

To understand my point you have to know the punchline...

How can you tell if a military pilot walks into a room?


...anyone?

 

[DrewBlows]

It's almost funny how many self-assigned FI airline career gurus look down on pilots actually wanting to work for a legacy carrier. It's simple: when you apply at a UAL/NWA/USA and the like you're not just looking at the current crappy contracts but at the future potential. Periodic furloughs aside, where will most (younger) pilots enjoy a secure career: regionals or legacies? It seems obvious to me.

What you say is true in many cases (mine included), but for many long time regional pilots it simply doesn't make sense to go to a 'legacy'. Different strokes.

 

[TWA Dude]

DrewBlows: which is why I indicated "younger".

 

[DrewBlows]

DrewBlows: which is why I indicated "younger".

Right on, I missed it the first time.