Question for Republic/Chautauqua dispatch...

[Gimpy]

"Damn good dispatcher"? Jeez, you are a tool. And why is it that you've worked at a few different airlines? Can't hold a job?
I do appreciate that you told everyone at Chiquita that your friend is not smartest on the block.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Tool.

I see you haven't matured one bit MM.

 

[Pull To Guns]

Not to worry tho. In another 10 years scope will be a thing of the past: former regionals will be the new mainliners, mainlines will exist as only marketing and brokering apparati. Then, and only then (if the economy is stable enough along the way) will pay slowly rise./QUOTE]

In 10 years, dispatchers won't exist. I have seen LIDO (LIDO In, Dispatchers Out) and it is the future.

Ops Controllers and System Coordinators will survive but not Dispatchers. It is getting all too automated now, just like high tech avionics made FE's obsolete and glass cockpits are turning pilots into systems managers.

Press a few buttons and you have a release. LIDO reads NOTAMS and WX. You get either a green or a red light. Pilots could be easily trained to do their own releases and ACARS is a real-time source of WX anytime for enroute stuff. It's only a matter of time. We are becoming redundant. The pay scales reflect that and the airlines can't wait to get rid of us as a cost center as technology advances.

Most of the world's airlines do not require or use Flight Dispatchers. My current employer has us on staff, and even though our input is valuable, it is not legally required to conduct a flight.

It's not about our contributions to safety, it's all about economics. Sign of the times!

 

[Gimpy]

Also might want your friend to brush up on NOTAMS...which is why he failed his first comp check

Also when assigned his initial jumpseat ride do not use some lame excuse like I lost my form with my times...we think he never did it

BTW I have showed this to all the dispatchers in the office, so your friend is going to have a good ole time if and when he gets signed off

Tell him to grow up, study and do his damn job..we do not have time to babysit a so called professional dispatcher (term used very loosely in his case)

I don't have a dog in this fight.

I don't condone the attitude of this guy. It sounds like he's got a nice sized chip on his shoulder. However, don't you think it's rather unprofessional to spread this around the office? Has anyone pulled this guy aside and talked to him about it?

Someone I know that used to work in CHQ dispatch years ago called it a snake pit. People would rat each other out to management, stab people in the back, and just behave childishly. This sounds like the same type of stuff, so I guess things haven't changed too much.

 

[ABC123]

It is not a snake pit here, and actually never said a word to anyone, since there are 8 other people from this office on here...

But it just ticked me off, because this person failed to listen or to be taught during ground school and desk training, and whines to their friend

 

[aviator202]

Pull to guns said....

We are becoming redundant. The pay scales reflect that and the airlines can't wait to get rid of us as a cost center as technology advances.


I am going to politely disagree with Pull to Guns on this one....For more than a few reasons...

1) Our purpose IS being redundant....Sure the Captain is supposed to be able to do everything involved with a flight...But being human he does his job better on some days than others...We are here to catch issues when he has a bad day...The old two brains are better than one deal...

2) Technology advances and is fun and bright and hopeful...I believe Pull to Guns is a relatively young man working overseas at a prosperous carrier with all the bells and whistles...good for him, I'm envious....I, however, am a bit of a codger and have been around long enough to have a very healthy suspicion and distrust of any technology, no matter how long it has been around...I worked in IT for years and years....it is a tremendously flawed industry that has never and I believe (at least in my and my nephews lifetimes ) does not and will not live up to its hype....

3) True, the rest of the world does it differently...They also don't fly as much as we do in the U.S either......also the U.S. as a whole and over a period of time is viewed by some meteorologists as having some of the worst flying weather on Earth....Remember, not day to day, but in the aggregate.....We (dispatchers) are really, really useful on weather days....My young friend, as I understand it....your desert has a fairly constant climate and weather....

4) Safety...Our reason for being...I will put up our safety record ( U.S.) as being superior to the rest of the world...and I claim dispatchers as the reason for the disparity!!!

5) Liability...we ( U.S.) are litigious....compared with the devastation of lawsuits, we are pretty darn cheap insurance....saying the computer screwed up won't wash with judges and juries....however, having a living dispatcher gives management someone to throw under the bus at their discretion...they like that!!!

6) Legal requirements....we are (dispatchers) legally required to be here....good luck in changing that regulation!!!

7) And one final though on automation....just because something CAN be done, we need to REFLECT very carefully whether is SHOULD be done!

aviator202

 

[propsarebest]

Pull to guns ain't no spring chicken!

Sorry, I had to...

 

[Pull To Guns]

Pull to guns said....

We are becoming redundant. The pay scales reflect that and the airlines can't wait to get rid of us as a cost center as technology advances.


I am going to politely disagree with Pull to Guns on this one....For more than a few reasons...

1) Our purpose IS being redundant....Sure the Captain is supposed to be able to do everything involved with a flight...But being human he does his job better on some days than others...We are here to catch issues when he has a bad day...The old two brains are better than one deal...

That would be the First Officer Concept.

2) Technology advances and is fun and bright and hopeful...I believe Pull to Guns is a relatively young man working overseas at a prosperous carrier with all the bells and whistles...good for him, I'm envious....I, however, am a bit of a codger and have been around long enough to have a very healthy suspicion and distrust of any technology, no matter how long it has been around...I worked in IT for years and years....it is a tremendously flawed industry that has never and I believe (at least in my and my nephews lifetimes ) does not and will not live up to its hype....

Technology has advanced to the point where computers are entrusted to (and certified) to fly, navigate and land aircraft without any "hands on" actions from humans. I dare say the precision made possible by computers has made aviation safer by removing the human factors such as "having a bad day". This reminds me of the old saying that future flight decks will have one pilot and a dog, the pilot is there to feed the dog and the dog is there to bite the pilot if he tries to touch anything. Pilots are becoming systems monitors as dispatchers are.

3) True, the rest of the world does it differently...They also don't fly as much as we do in the U.S either......also the U.S. as a whole and over a period of time is viewed by some meteorologists as having some of the worst flying weather on Earth....Remember, not day to day, but in the aggregate.....We (dispatchers) are really, really useful on weather days....My young friend, as I understand it....your desert has a fairly constant climate and weather....

What does the quantity of flying have to do with anything? Europe has the most congested airspace in the world. Eurocontrol manages it very well though. Most of these flights have no "Captain on the Ground".

I agree the US consistently has the most severe convective activity in the world. ATC, doppler WX radar and advanced airborne radar make sure very few crews are suprised by unexpected WX. When a DXer is following 15 flights at once, his contribution is many times a day late and a dollar short.

You are correct, my company's hub is in a desert location. Inbound is easy except for the occasional sandstorm. The hard part is that all of our flights go somewhere else. Destinations include Tokyo to Chicago and a lot of places in between. Try winter flights to Moscow and Minsk. On any given shift. I may finish a short hop to Beirut only to begin planning a flight to Sydney. One advantage to DXing in the US is the homogeneous airspace. Everything to one standard. I don't want to get in a pyssing contest with you over who has the most difficult job.

4) Safety...Our reason for being...I will put up our safety record ( U.S.) as being superior to the rest of the world...and I claim dispatchers as the reason for the disparity!!!

You are right, and I am proud of that fact, but FAA oversight, the aformentioned sameness of the airspace, generally good aircraft condition and flightcrew training have a lot to do with that. Dispatchers have a positive effect on flight safety but I would have to disagree that we are the sole reason for disparities of safety records compared to other countries. If this was a proven fact, ALL airlines would have dispatchers

5) Liability...we ( U.S.) are litigious....compared with the devastation of lawsuits, we are pretty darn cheap insurance....saying the computer screwed up won't wash with judges and juries....however, having a living dispatcher gives management someone to throw under the bus at their discretion...they like that!!!

I agree. Our major duties as management sees it is to save fuel(money) and accept blame.

6) Legal requirements....we are (dispatchers) legally required to be here....good luck in changing that regulation!!!

Flight Engineers were once, too.

7) And one final though on automation....just because something CAN be done, we need to REFLECT very carefully whether is SHOULD be done!

Agreed again but don't underestimate the power of economics, especially in the current bad times.

aviator202

Don't get me wrong, I am proud to be a dispatcher and the job I do. I can see the handwriting on the wall though and would advise just starting out in this profession to slide into Operations Control (Sytems Coordinator) before it's too late. The dispatcher's role of late is a planner of an economical and safe flight. Software is here now that can do that. I use it every day monitoring the system. Ops Controllers react to live and changing situations and technology cannot easily mimic that.

 

[Pull To Guns]

Pull to guns ain't no spring chicken!

Sorry, I had to...

You Bastid!!!

 

[clr4theapch]

Ok..ok I give up.. Pull to guns has made good points..lets look at this: To all dispatchers.. go home.. today... show up tomorrow at your local ramp...for retraining as box kickers... as of tommorrow All airlines are now operating 121 supplemental ops.

And you pilots.. make sure you show up 2 hours earlier than you already do, per deim pay of course, so you can go back to the old days of doing part 91 style flight planning, call ARTCC to get the game plan and work your reroutings, Good luck getting that done in time for a scheduled departure. Weed through all those pesky notams and oh wait we got MEL's/CDL's .. crap I got to look at performance now.. and now I we have to get the OPS SPEC approved runway performace numbers and current weather, calculate that... Hurry up..crap here come the passengers, the F/A's are prepping the cabin.. Now I got to figure out the best alternates and one that the company can support and the passengers can be cared for if needed.. Hurry...hurry ..and now we have to file the plan or hell lets just take off VFR and we can pick up our IFR clearance enroute..

Now enroute, we have to look way out to our dist and the alternates, making sure they are still legal.. find out what the airport conditions are/Wx, any changes.. and I have to deal with the airplane too.. what, we have a pack going down?.. and now operatioins call us that our next legs aircraft has a problem and gate change to the other side of the airport when we get in.. you will be close to your 8 hour day.. Oh we just lost one of our alternates.. now where is that weather.. ..... "work load" "work load" starts blaring from the master warning sys.. "your falling behind"

Its just too much to ask for in this complicated world and the increased pilot work load would be just crazy.. and by the way you want them to do this for the same pay they are already complaining about..?? really??

Sure the electronics are great and can do much of these calculations as long as they are working well, updated and hardware is not broken somewhere.. but the IT department would have to grow..seen what they make an hour lately?.

And now the pilots own it all.. very busy preflight.. now do that 4 to 5 times a day for the regional guys.. 2 or 3 for the larger carriers.. and you think the flight crews are screaming now about their work load/hours vs pay?

Multiply this times thousands of times a day (by even a small increase in pilot pay) and one could see this added responsbility/ cost would be a very costly addition to the pilot contracts..no to mention hiring other employees to support this change, I believe much more expensive than just keeping dispatchers.. not to mention the second set of eyes from a safety standpoint..

I have to respectfully disagree about the economic savings of eliminating dispatch... and lets not forget what would happen in future accidents and how the FAA would be roasted by the public for allowing what is perceived as a reduction in safety.. the law suits, and on and on... Nah.. I don't see elimination of dispatchers

 

[Pull To Guns]

Don't misunderstand me! I am not advocating the elimination of dispatchers. Hell, I have been one for 12 years and counting. Just sayin' that the time is coming where we will not be indispensable anymore.

I have been in the biz for long enough to see the trends. Those trends point to fewer and fewer DXers managing more and more flights as the technology matures. The slippery slope will continue without abatement, the Genie is out of the bottle. This happened where I was and it is happening where I am now.

Flight Engineers probably said the same types of things when they saw their careers slipping away due to technology advances. Who's gonna watch the hydraulic pressures, fuel levels, EGT's and EPR's? The pilots are too busy, they need me. We all know what happened there.

Even in the military, I am sure 2LT Butterbars is concerned about the security of his fighter pilot gig as the USAF is hugely invested in RPV's as the future of air combat and attack roles.

Pay rates are an indicator of one's worth to an organization. I am sorry to say that us dispatchers are not valued very much and no amount of self-aggrandizement will change that. You can bet that US airlines are looking at foreign carriers such as BA, LH, AF, VA, KL, QF, JL, and many others that have excellent safety records without using the services of flight dispatchers.

Take it for what it is worth, just my opinions and I do not want to cause rancor to my dispatcher brothers or sisters, but the march of technology is relentless and our bosses see us flesh and blood types as standing in its path.

Its all about the money