Question for Lear 35/Citation II drivers

[Palerider957]

I'm hoping this forum can provide some wisdom. Currently we have a Citation Isp, but are looking to upgrade in about a year or so. We have looked at the II, and It seems like a good aircraft. I am also interested in exploring a Lear 35A.

My questions are this:

What can you tell me about operating costs of the Lear 35 vs. Citation II?

Which would be more operationally reasonable for 4-6 people from SRQ to TET?

Any info. you have would be very appreciated.

 

[Bandit60]

Do you mean Teb instead of tet?. I have flown both the Lear35a and the Citaition II. Hand down the Lear35 is going to do a better job with that route. You could have troubles making TEB with a full load of passengers on the Citation but wouldnt have a problem with the lear.

 

[Palerider957]

Whoops. Yes, I meant TEB.

I know the Lear 35 is more expensive per/hr to operate, but it's significantly faster. I have to imagine that the 35 will be more costly overall, but I'm not sure how the two really compare.

 

[2000flyer]

According to C&D, on a 600nm trip, the variable costs on a Citation II runs $1131/hr, the LR35 is $1460. Note they figure fuel at $2.91/gallon, so those figures will be up a bit.

2000Flyer

 

[some_dude]

Bandit60 is right on. I'm not familiar with that route, but the 35 is generally much faster than the Citation II, and has better altitude capability to boot.

The Citation is probably a bit cheaper to operate (but not much on a per-mile basis). Neither is great for baggage, although the Citation II I flew had a forward lav, and thus that entire rear lav area was available for baggage, meaning it could carry quite a bit more than the Lear.

If you are carrying golf clubs frequently in the Lear, get one with the Raisbeck aft locker. Otherwise you really can't carry more than 2 sets. The only negative to the Raisbeck locker is that you no longer have the drag chute, and as long as the airplane has reversers, that's a non-issue anyway.

The Citation is much easier to fly, but then you know that if you are flying a ISP right now. I would tend to favor the Citation if you are doing short fields (less than 4000') frequently, or doing very short legs (300nm or less). Otherwise, I would recommend the Lear.

 

[cezzna]

You might look at a citation V. It has the simplicity of a cessna citation II but with better speed and it will go straight to 410. The II is going to be a slow boat to China on that route. Never flown a lear 35 so I don't know about maintenance on a lear but finding someone who can work an a 500 series citation is pretty easy. I don't know if you have your own wrench but having someone homebased who could work on either would be a big issue. The V is just as good as any 500 series for short fields also. All three of these probably will have a GNS-XLS for a FMS which are going to be about useless as RNAV SID/STARS A/B come into play more. I think in five years all jets not digital are going to be sinificantly restricted in practical use. My 2 cents.

 

[Palerider957]

Thanks for everyones input.

 

[ultrarunner]

Palerider, I have flown both, and over that route, and for my money, which it's not, you'd be hard pressed to beat the V-Ultra. Your price-point would support it since you're considering the 35, and the speed advantage the 35 has over a C550 is drastically reduced with the C560 Ultra.

On that 900 mile trip, it's 2+15 in the 35 and about 2+30 in a V Ultra.
So, you'll fly it, at the most, about 30 mins more on that trip. Which would just about bring the cost to operate about the same. I would still give the V-Ulta a slight edge in operating costs, as you'd have a MUCH newer airframe that is MUCH less labor intensive to work on.

Six folks regularly in a 35 will be tight, but quite roomy in a V Ultra. Baggage would never be an issue on the Citation. Give it a look.

 

[some_dude]

How much are Citation Vs going for these days?

Decent RVSM Lear 35s are well under $2 million.

Palerider, I have flown both, and over that route, and for my money, which it's not, you'd be hard pressed to beat the V-Ultra. Your price-point would support it since you're considering the 35, and the speed advantage the 35 has over a C550 is drastically reduced with the C560 Ultra.

On that 900 mile trip, it's 2+15 in the 35 and about 2+30 in a V Ultra.
So, you'll fly it, at the most, about 30 mins more on that trip. Which would just about bring the cost to operate about the same. I would still give the V-Ulta a slight edge in operating costs, as you'd have a MUCH newer airframe that is MUCH less labor intensive to work on.

Six folks regularly in a 35 will be tight, but quite roomy in a V Ultra. Baggage would never be an issue on the Citation. Give it a look.

 

[ultrarunner]

How much are Citation Vs going for these days?

Decent RVSM Lear 35s are well under $2 million.

Under 2? Wow.

What's decent mean????

Ultra's are gonna be more than that....

It's all in what you want. But what I'd call a decent V is less than 8 years old or so and less than 5,000 hours. And it's gonna take 3 to 4 to get in that game.

If I were to guess, to get a 35 under 2 mil, you're looking at 25 year old airframes with just a ton of airframe hours.

With what's available and the current market, a buyer is always going to be better off purchasing the new airframe, with lower time on it. It will make a WORLD of difference when it comes time to get rid of it.