Question for GuppyWn re: Delta

[Widow's Son]

Hey Gup,

I read on PpruNe on the "Delta Hiring" thread that you wrote that if you were on the bottom of the SWA list you would consider jumping to Delta.

I found that quite interesting.

You have railed against PBS, which Delta has.

You have railed against RJ codeshare, which Delta has in spades.

You have railed against international alliances, which Delta is all about.

You have also seemed to be a champion of max pay and quick upgrades which SWA beats Delta in both categories.

Therefore, other than making the General's day, could you please expound upon why you said you would consider leaving SWA for Delta?

 

[N1atEcon]

I thought he said "if" he was on the bottom, which he is not.

 

[scoreboardII]

My guess he said that is because unless Kelly pulls a rabbit out of his hat, the bottom feeders at SWA will be bottom feeders for decades, no growth, and most likely mergers further slowing upgrade times.

 

[IslandDriver]

Funny...I am at the bottom of the WN list...there were two guys in my class from Delta....I wonder how they feel.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Hey Gup,

I read on PpruNe on the "Delta Hiring" thread that you wrote that if you were on the bottom of the SWA list you would consider jumping to Delta.

I found that quite interesting.

You have railed against PBS, which Delta has.

You have railed against RJ codeshare, which Delta has in spades.

You have railed against international alliances, which Delta is all about.

You have also seemed to be a champion of max pay and quick upgrades which SWA beats Delta in both categories.

Therefore, other than making the General's day, could you please expound upon why you said you would consider leaving SWA for Delta?

That last sentence is pretty funny.
That being said, this couldn't have been said through a PM?

 

[mayoplane]

I wouldnt jump ship to delta from WN. They are two good companies and its just a personal choice. WN is a lot of fun, comfortable pay and i dont worry too much about furlough because of their history. Yes, i realize things can change.

 

[GuppyWN]

Hey Gup,

I read on PpruNe on the "Delta Hiring" thread that you wrote that if you were on the bottom of the SWA list you would consider jumping to Delta.

I found that quite interesting.

You have railed against PBS, which Delta has.

You have railed against RJ codeshare, which Delta has in spades.

You have railed against international alliances, which Delta is all about.

You have also seemed to be a champion of max pay and quick upgrades which SWA beats Delta in both categories.

Therefore, other than making the General's day, could you please expound upon why you said you would consider leaving SWA for Delta?

Absolutely my friend.

My PERSONAL quality of life meter is pretty simple. Make bank while you can and try to enjoy your job doing it. You must be able to do this in as few "do-overs" as you can.

Southwest is my 3rd airline after almost 10 years as a corporate pilot. When I got hired here I had also been hired by American AND Delta. The first class date was Southwest. By the time the American class date had come up I was almost on the line and realized how "fun" Southwest was. The major problem is the pay SUCKED! (relative to Mother D and American) I did the math and figured a 4 year upgrade here would have me making what I would at either of the other two and we'd "hopefully" have a decent contract by then anyway.

Well, educated guess and it has, to this date, paid off. Missed the 4 year upgrade by a couple but the pay swung up to where it is today.

As far as your question I'll reference my Quality of Life Meter. Make bank and go home. Delta is hiring, WN is not. One of my very best friends is almost dead last at WN. He has been on straight reserve and commuted across the country for 2 YEARS to do it. He has had his nuts slammed so many times I cannot count the ways. In other words, he has no life. He doesn't complain so I will do it for him.

If I were him and was looking at a 15 year upgrade, which he is, I would consider going elsewhere. Flying all over the world in the right seat of a 777 doesn't suck. Spending 15 years in the right seat of a 737 might. Nobody knows yet because we have never been "there" here at WN.

Listen bro. This isn't about PBS, codeshare, or RJ's. This is about quality of life and making cash to support your family in retirement. I have championed against every single one of those things but I will be honest. At the end of the day I do not fight these things for YOUR benefit, I fight them for MINE, which may help you too!

Do I love it at Southwest Airlines? HELL YES!!!! This is, without a single doubt, the best job I could have, FOR ME. I am a redneck goofball with a pretty laid back attitude and this joint fits me like a glove. All things being considered though, in todays market, you'd be a FOOL not to put a serious eye and pen to paper on a Delta career. It's a great airline. Take off the uniform and their guys are just as "cool" as our guys. (Unlike the United guys - but I digress! )

Be selfish in your career choices, do the math and take a swing. That's pretty much all I was saying.

Gup wouldn't leave Southwest for ANY carrier - today. If I were #5832 I'd at least do the math.

Gup

P.S. I'm not telling anyone to jump ship like we had Pre 9/11 here at WN! I'm simply explaining to you what would go into my decisions in todays environment.

 

[pegasus]

That was a most excellent reply Gupster. Read your stuff on the prune too, and we are from totally different backgrounds, but that was a wise statement.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Very nice post, Guppy.

You forgot to comment on his genetalia and talk and make other vague homosexual references like is the standard at FI.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Great Post Gup.

I was looking at the bottom of your list a few years ago, and made the cost benefit analysis as well. Both airlines have a lot going for them.

It is a choice between two great paths.

 

[UALX727]

GuppyWN,

Dude, you nailed it. Exactly the way you should look at it.

 

[Widow's Son]

>>Listen bro. This isn't about PBS, codeshare, or RJ's. This is about quality of life and making cash to support your family in retirement.<<

It is too about PBS, codeshare, and RJ's because every time one of those topics comes up on a SWA forum and you others describe them as career killers, yet the moment a carrier with ALL THREE is hiring, you're casually disregarding them and for what? Around the world in a 777? GMAB. An airplane is an airplane and a long ass leg is a long ass leg and the more you spread them around the world the more blurred the AM's and PM's become and the more unproductive the lines are. The ego stroke of the big airplane goes away in a big hurry for most people who don't live for ego stroke.

Yes SWA is in a growth rut right now, but it isn't SWA that went to pot, it was the airline market as a whole of which SWA is in integral part. Ask anyone who has been furloughed (which SWA hasn't done) if that dream of around the world in a 777 makes the furlough easier to swallow. Temporarily remaining static in both size and pay beats the hell out of going backwards.

>>Delta is hiring, WN is not.<<

Yeah, which sure flies in the face of what you and many others pontificated would be the result of codeshare and mergers, doesn't it?

Whatever dude.

I started this thread just to have a little fun with you. Having read your stuff on several forums for many years it just cracks me up how pro-SWA you generally are on the public forums compared to how anti-SWA you tend to be on our private forums.

 

[GuppyWN]

I am pro Southwest all the time bro. I just try not to air all of my laundry in public. If there is something you need then PM me and I'll be happy to give you my phone number.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

I am pro Southwest all the time bro. I just try not to air all of my laundry in public. If there is something you need then PM me and I'll be happy to give you my phone number.

Gup

 

[waveflyer]

Good post too gup-

but I will say, for me, I came up in the regionals and went to alpa legacy, I wouldn't ever choose a legacy- i simply couldn't stomach the outsourcing and the blatant ignorance from the major airline pilots that sold those jobs out. I couldn't do it- it was WN, fly boxes or Int'l or corporate- but at some point you are selling your soul if you work for the people managing those outfits- AND a couple of years of semi-bad QOL commuting to a southwest schedule doesn't make up for how bad ALPA unions have been to my generation.

There are a lot of intangibles to WN- that makes it worth it to me- if any southwest pilot doesn't care about those intangibles- I also invite them to move on. If it's just a job- and it's all about you- you'll fit in nice at delta.- not so much at swa.

 

[nimtz]

Good post too gup-

but I will say, for me, I came up in the regionals and went to alpa legacy, I wouldn't ever choose a legacy- i simply couldn't stomach the outsourcing and the blatant ignorance from the major airline pilots that sold those jobs out. I couldn't do it- it was WN, fly boxes or Int'l or corporate- but at some point you are selling your soul if you work for the people managing those outfits- AND a couple of years of semi-bad QOL commuting to a southwest schedule doesn't make up for how bad ALPA unions have been to my generation.

So why don't you hold the same disgust toward the generation of SWAPA pilots that gave all of us five years of career stagnation? They didn't exactly fight for real retirement plan back in the day...

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Good post too gup-

but I will say, for me, I came up in the regionals and went to alpa legacy, I wouldn't ever choose a legacy- i simply couldn't stomach the outsourcing and the blatant ignorance from the major airline pilots that sold those jobs out. I couldn't do it-

No, so you went to a job where instead of getting hired, you paid for your training. Good move junior!

it was WN, fly boxes or Int'l or corporate- but at some point you are selling your soul if you work for the people managing those outfits- AND a couple of years of semi-bad QOL commuting to a southwest schedule doesn't make up for how bad ALPA unions have been to my generation.

And yet the sw pilot group was the catalyst for age 65, stagnating your career even further, yet you don't seem to find any damage to your career or hold them in contempt?:laugh:

There are a lot of intangibles to WN- that makes it worth it to me- if any southwest pilot doesn't care about those intangibles- I also invite them to move on. If it's just a job- and it's all about you- you'll fit in nice at delta.- not so much at swa.

It's the above statement that mirrors the united pilots of the late 90's. Look at what happened to them now. Most of them are on furlough.
I'll look forward to your fall from grace you arrogant prick!

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

We all have our own ideas on works for us.

But there isn't a single pilot out perusing this board that when they decided to go in to this career decided they were going to be an airline pilot and fly for SW (or DL or B9). We said I hope to work for airline a, b, or c.

Some of us got to our first choice while others didn't, but, you make it work, drink some kool aid, and hopefully in 20 years or so we can all look back from our hammock in Tahiti and say, "yeah this was worth it and the right decisions were made for me (fate or higher power).

Personally, I am working for my number one choice of legacy, live 9 miles from the parking lot, and am home 30 minutes after clearing customs. I fly the jet I want (well I want 777 Captain but at 11 years seniority that's alot to ask) see the world 24-48 hours at a time and am home 22-24 nights a month. So, I think for me this works.


Had I ended up at SWA I am sure I would have adapted to a commute to BWI, or FedEx I would have adapted to a MEM commute, etc.

I am just glad things are OK at my carrier and realize how hard others have to work to be miserable and make $125K.

Good luck to all and fly safe, (done blabbing -- daughter waking up).....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If your daughter is waking up at darn near 11 am you are a luck man.

 

[Herkdrv]

Absolutely my friend.

My PERSONAL quality of life meter is pretty simple. Make bank while you can and try to enjoy your job doing it. You must be able to do this in as few "do-overs" as you can.

Southwest is my 3rd airline after almost 10 years as a corporate pilot. When I got hired here I had also been hired by American AND Delta. The first class date was Southwest. By the time the American class date had come up I was almost on the line and realized how "fun" Southwest was. The major problem is the pay SUCKED! (relative to Mother D and American) I did the math and figured a 4 year upgrade here would have me making what I would at either of the other two and we'd "hopefully" have a decent contract by then anyway.

Well, educated guess and it has, to this date, paid off. Missed the 4 year upgrade by a couple but the pay swung up to where it is today.

As far as your question I'll reference my Quality of Life Meter. Make bank and go home. Delta is hiring, WN is not. One of my very best friends is almost dead last at WN. He has been on straight reserve and commuted across the country for 2 YEARS to do it. He has had his nuts slammed so many times I cannot count the ways. In other words, he has no life. He doesn't complain so I will do it for him.

If I were him and was looking at a 15 year upgrade, which he is, I would consider going elsewhere. Flying all over the world in the right seat of a 777 doesn't suck. Spending 15 years in the right seat of a 737 might. Nobody knows yet because we have never been "there" here at WN.

Listen bro. This isn't about PBS, codeshare, or RJ's. This is about quality of life and making cash to support your family in retirement. I have championed against every single one of those things but I will be honest. At the end of the day I do not fight these things for YOUR benefit, I fight them for MINE, which may help you too!

Do I love it at Southwest Airlines? HELL YES!!!! This is, without a single doubt, the best job I could have, FOR ME. I am a redneck goofball with a pretty laid back attitude and this joint fits me like a glove. All things being considered though, in todays market, you'd be a FOOL not to put a serious eye and pen to paper on a Delta career. It's a great airline. Take off the uniform and their guys are just as "cool" as our guys. (Unlike the United guys - but I digress! )

Be selfish in your career choices, do the math and take a swing. That's pretty much all I was saying.

Gup wouldn't leave Southwest for ANY carrier - today. If I were #5832 I'd at least do the math.

Gup

P.S. I'm not telling anyone to jump ship like we had Pre 9/11 here at WN! I'm simply explaining to you what would go into my decisions in todays environment.

I'm as junior as you can get here and no way would I leave WN for anybody else right now. We have been overmanned for most of the time I've been here, and truly believe if I was at a legacy we would have been furloughed in a heartbeat. If you were chasing the bucks look at what my buds at UPS are going through right now. Great company, and even greater people trump chasing the all mighty dollar in my opinion. Plus pay here is pretty good anyway. Besides LBB rocks!!!!!!!!!! :beer: