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Question for Delta Pilots

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Are you comparing YOUR trips, or the majority of trips out there? The guys I talk to at your airline complain of 15 or more legs on a 4 day trip, which sounds a lot like the Regionals. YOUR trips may be better, you may be more senior as an FO, I don't know. My trips consist of many options on the plane I fly. If you are on a 3 day trip with at least 1 leg per day, the min is 15:45. That doesn't mean EVERY 3 day trip is that way, but that is the MIN. If there is a leg each day of a 4 day, then 21:00, but again not every trip is at MIN. I do 3 day Europe trips that are worth close to 20 hours, and they have 2 legs. That's called efficient. I do 6 day trips that can be worth close to 40 hours (beats your 33 hour 4 day---it's better than 30 in 7 because it is an INTL trip, something only your AT brothers can do right now). We have 12 day trips worth 82 hours, and at MOST you are flying 1 leg a day, to nice resorts in the Marianas, or back and forth from Japan to Honolulu. (which I did a few months ago---easy 9 or 10 hour legs back and forth to HNL from Fukoka, Nagoya, Narita, or Osaka) It's called variety. You can do 1 day turns, or you can fly up to 12 in a row on certain fleets (757/767, A330, 744), and then have 35 days off in a row (with another 12 day at the end of the following month). If you don't like those, you also have a choice of different fleets to fit your needs, with plenty of bases to choose from too.

Not everyone can hold trips like that above, but with huge retirement numbers coming up (something you guys lack, fairly small numbers compared to the legacies, and when one guy leaves from the left seat at your airline, one FO moves up, and one needs to be hired. Not at a legacy. One guy retires, 10 move up, etc). I forcast a bunch of your junior FOs looking around when the legacies start hiring and get their contracts in order.

As far as my OCT schedule goes, the flying has died down a bit compared to the busy Summer, so the lines are worth a little less. I think our average line value on my fleet is 79 hours (that can be bumped up to 87 via white slips, or picking up opentime). There are other ways to add time, like swapping trips, and that happens everyday. You can choose to fly a little, or fly a lot. It depends on when you want to work, and seniority, just like your airline. I personally had a carry over trip from the last month, and 3 Europe 3 days. I swapped one 3 day Europe for a higher time domestic to get some landings and to see the West Coast. So, I have about 86 hours, and I get to fly to places I want to see, with a few landings too, and not too much stress. No 25 min turns. The INTL trips pay more per hour (INTL override), and the per diem is higher too. Next month I have vacation around Thanksgiving, so I will actually be allowed to pick up more time if I want, which means I could have 100 hours of pay, but still have 18 or more days off. (I could fly 4 3 day Europes, and on top of that get paid for a week of vacation)



Bye Bye---General Lee

Fact: Oct line average 95tfp.
Fact: Oct line average 18 days off.

I talk in averages. Not like you. Sure, we have 26tfp 3days and 35tfp 4days. I dont see those. We also have 9tfp turns and 18 tfp 2days.

Define efficient? I see it as most $$/day away from home.

You get paid more per hr but less per month. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You want to see the west coast? what? It looks the same as it did last October? Are you a 12yr old, or have you been hanging round them too much?

Only 86 credit for you? Good thing your wife can carry the load. When all else fails, hitch on to a Texan. They get ya thru the rough spots.
 
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And yet another thread turns into SWA vs DAL.
 
Fact: Oct line average 95tfp.
Fact: Oct line average 18 days off.

I talk in averages. Not like you. Sure, we have 26tfp 3days and 35tfp 4days. I dont see those. We also have 9tfp turns and 18 tfp 2days.

Define efficient? I see it as most $$/day away from home.

You get paid more per hr but less per month. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You want to see the west coast? what? It looks the same as it did last October? Are you a 12yr old, or have you been hanging round them too much?

Only 86 credit for you? Good thing your wife can carry the load. When all else fails, hitch on to a Texan. They get ya thru the rough spots.

Dude, you fly 737s forever, multiple leg days, 25 min turns, and stagnation for your FOs for decades. We give variety, and I am able to bid up to a larger plane and make more, when you cannot. Apples to oranges. But, what I do see is hundreds of your junior guys looking for something else when the legacies get their contracts done and retirements start. They can see the writing on the wall, stagnation.

So, you may have some great trips, and even though your trips cannot even touch a 6 day worth 40 hours for efficiency, most of your trips are productive, although boring. Sure, you might remember a couple of the routes during the trip, maybe a layover, but most of it is just a blur. If you want to live your flying career like that, go ahead. Most of us don't. If the pay is the same (and it is rapidly becoming that way on our narrowbodies compared to yours, with the widebodies passing you quickly), I would venture most upcoming newhires will want to go to a legacy, and avoid the deal you had with your AT brothers. That is why I post things here about this subject, to allow people to see the differences, and there are many.

So, have a great one on your 35tfp/ 3day to Reno and Omaha, and I'll go the other way across the pond. Have fun!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Dude, you fly 737s forever, multiple leg days, 25 min turns, and stagnation for your FOs for decades.

Bye Bye---General Lee


Real simple question for you General....


You like to crap all over Southwest stagnation, I get it. But which carrier has the potential for more growth going forward?

Delta, who really has NO new growth plans. As you've pointed out, you go around the world. I completely agree with you on this point.

or....

Southwest Airlines, who only goes to 38 states domestically? and we still have growth available to us here in the states... COMBINED with everything international.

We can easily grow cities in the US, combined with.....Alaska, Hawaii, Canada, Mexico, Belize, Costa Rica, Columbia, St Lucia, St Croix, St Thomas, San Juan, Grand Cayman, The Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Trinidad, Peru, etc, etc.

and then combine the rest of the world with one widebody type.

See the difference? It's night and day.

Your stagnation schick gets zero traction when you look at the complete picture. Sorry.
 
Red,

Come on man, DL is taking 88 of your 717s. They will go BACK to markets that were given to DCI a decade ago. That means expansion for mainline. Next DL is getting more MD90s, maybe 25 more this year and next. There are plenty of international cities that are ready to come on line when the economies around the World get better, like Guangzhou in China that we have rights for from Narita but haven't re-activated it yet (NWA used to fly there). We won rights to fly more flights to the South Pacific like American Samoa, New Zealand, and Singapore. (Nonstop from US). Australia is now open skies. DL has said in the press that they would be interested in AA's MIA operation to South America if it becomes available. There are still orders for 787s too. The list goes on and on.

How about you guys? Did you add more BWI to CLE flights? What about CMH to BNA?



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Dude, you fly 737s forever, multiple leg days, 25 min turns, and stagnation for your FOs for decades. We give variety, and I am able to bid up to a larger plane and make more, when you cannot. Apples to oranges. But, what I do see is hundreds of your junior guys looking for something else when the legacies get their contracts done and retirements start. They can see the writing on the wall, stagnation.

So, you may have some great trips, and even though your trips cannot even touch a 6 day worth 40 hours for efficiency, most of your trips are productive, although boring. Sure, you might remember a couple of the routes during the trip, maybe a layover, but most of it is just a blur. If you want to live your flying career like that, go ahead. Most of us don't. If the pay is the same (and it is rapidly becoming that way on our narrowbodies compared to yours, with the widebodies passing you quickly), I would venture most upcoming newhires will want to go to a legacy, and avoid the deal you had with your AT brothers. That is why I post things here about this subject, to allow people to see the differences, and there are many.

So, have a great one on your 35tfp/ 3day to Reno and Omaha, and I'll go the other way across the pond. Have fun!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Stagnation? LOL! Bang-up job of DAL hiring in the last 10 years. Worse than that, how' bout them furloughs? How can someone at an airline that has been a disaster for over a decade point the finger? Bankruptcy, paycuts and furloughs. Nice job! Yall are #1. At least give us the DECADE LONG headstart yall had.

I've been meaning to say this, but your RIGHT! Congrats on nearly getting your widebodys up to our 737 pay. Golf clap.
 
Red,

Come on man, DL is taking 88 of your 717s. They will go BACK to markets that were given to DCI a decade ago. That means expansion for mainline. Next DL is getting more MD90s, maybe 25 more this year and next. There are plenty of international cities that are ready to come on line when the economies around the World get better, like Guangzhou in China that we have rights for from Narita but haven't re-activated it yet (NWA used to fly there). We won rights to fly more flights to the South Pacific like American Samoa, New Zealand, and Singapore. (Nonstop from US). Australia is now open skies. DL has said in the press that they would be interested in AA's MIA operation to South America if it becomes available. There are still orders for 787s too. The list goes on and on.

How about you guys? Did you add more BWI to CLE flights? What about CMH to BNA?



Bye Bye---General Lee

That (DL) vs the rest of the World for SW?

Give me a break General.

Game, Set and Match.

Full Steam Ahead to .5% growth going forward. Talk about stagnation.
 
Holy ******************** you guys are losers! Get a friggin lifeMy airline is better than yours...Who gives a ********************!
What is wrong with you?
 
That (DL) vs the rest of the World for SW?

Give me a break General.

Game, Set and Match.

Full Steam Ahead to .5% growth going forward. Talk about stagnation.

Is that .5% growth for you guys? Giving away 88 717s and replacing them with older 733s and 735s that now can't be retired, but must stay longer, while deferring 30 738s. You yourself can't fly INTL flights for a couple more years due to your RES system and lack of ETOPS. (Besides Caribbean and Mexico, flown by AT). There is nowhere you can go but contiguous 48 for the next couple years. You are stuck. Where again will you expand in the US? You pulled more flights out of PHL and SEA, and cut total flights at ATL. Looks like you are the one "not going anywhere", route wise and seniority wise. I just think potential newhires or interviewees would want to know that.... Oh, and tell me again how taking YOUR 88 717s is not growth? You can't Red, you just can't. Bye.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Holy ******************** you guys are losers! Get a friggin lifeMy airline is better than yours...Who gives a ********************!
What is wrong with you?

The thread got slow...... And it's good for people to know differences.

Bye Bye---General Lee
 

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