Question for ATC

[Stifler's Mom]

Let's say you are given a cossing restriction, ie. cross the VOR at 11,000. You subsequesntly get handed off to another controller, who then instructs you to descend to 8,000.

My question is, are you still responsible to cross the VOR at 11,000?

I have asked this question of the Capt's I fly with, and nobody seems to be sure of the answer.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cheater1239]

no longer a restriction unless restated

 

[ATCER]

no longer a restriction unless restated

Exactly right...

Stifler's Mom -

When you check on if the controller just rogers ya and issues the altimeter then your still expected to make that restriction. Once something else is issued the previous restriction is cancelled.

 

[Flibmeister]

Previous posters are right on the money. The reference is in the AIM, paragraph 4-4-9(g), which says (in part):

If altitude to maintain is changed or restated, whether prior to departure or while airborne, and, previously issued altitude restrictions are omitted, those altitude restrictions are canceled, including departure procedures and STAR altitude restrictions.

 

[chperplt]

I have an ATC question I'll tack on to this thread..

Let's say you're "hypothetically" coming out of JFK.. Going through let's say 6000 feet on your way up to let's say 13000 feet, the controller tells you "to go as fast as you can." You tell the controller that you're already doing 250, and he tells you he needs at least 300 now. SO, you proceed to give him what he wants, he thanks you and you go about your business.

So, after this hypothetical situation occurs and the NASA & ASAP forms have been filled out, can a controller ask/direct/demand you to exceed 250 below 10 without the controller declaring a so called emergency??? For the sake of this hypothetical situation, the reason the controller needed the aircraft to go fast now is not clear to the flight crew.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

When did you transition to greater than 250 KIAS? Above 10,000? No problem. 91.117 applies. What if a controller asked you to fly into a mountain? They've done it and pilots have followed the instructions, of course not on purpose but controller mistake. Would you shoot an approach to below minimums if the controller asked you too? COME ON? WHO'S FLYING THE AIRPLANE AND WHO'S LICENSE IS AT STAKE?

 

[737tanker]

If you are more than 12 miles offshore after you departed JFK then you can comply with ATC request to go faster than 250 below 10,000. If you within 12 mile of the shore you can't. Remember not all Controllers know the FARs, nor are they required to know them.

 

[ATCER]

chperplt - this has happened to you I assume... departing out of JFk the room flashes us handoffs climbing to 13,000'. Your "hypothetically" speaking example has a lot of accuracy...

You have been told to exceed 250 on your climb below 10,000' ??? Can you give a little more info ??? Maybe it is someone I work with or know... Hugh Johnson gave really good advice... if you don't feel comfortable say UNABLE ! Pilots have questioned me and I'm glad they did.

I work with guys that with 2 planes in the sector are saying expedite with every command.

 

[atcloser]

i work departures off JFK climbing to 13000, I assume you were going to WAVEY or SHIPP. we do tell pilots that "you are over the water, speed is your discretion" on departure. if we say it, we are using the 12NM rule, which we use a lot at JFK on arrivals from CAMRN (keep your speed up descending from 11000 to 3000, and on departures going over WAVEY/SHIPP/HAPIE/BETTE. A lot of foreigners (even some very heavily loaded US carriers) going to other non-overwater fixes (MERIT, GREKI, GAYLE) ask for more than 250 KTS in the climb (at 4000 feet for instance) and we gladly approve that also traffic permitting. i am not sure if the 250 speed limit below 10K applied to those who need it for performance issues...???

 

[atcloser]

also wanted to add, the controller probably wanted you to go fast over the water because there was an IN TRAIL requirement...say 20 MIT over WAVEY. if you get the first guy filed for WAVEY to go fast, you dont have to vector as much for those a/c coming out behind him that need to get 20 miles in trail. it just makes it easier for us.