Question for ASA Pilots

[fltdspx]

Just a curious question about fuel. We in dispatch have been told by SEVERAL pilots that
1st. they have to by regs land with not less then 3000lbs.
2nd. if they burn into their reserve. they have to declare an emergency per regs.
3rd. What min fuel requirements per regs do you have to land with.
all of these have been said to dispatch on numinous occasions and no one to date has been able to quote any regs to such statements...please help

 

[WalterSobchak]

This...should be entertaining.

 

[Tarzan]

Just a curious question about fuel. We in dispatch have been told by SEVERAL pilots that
1st. they have to by regs land with not less then 3000lbs.
2nd. if they burn into their reserve. they have to declare an emergency per regs.
3rd. What min fuel requirements per regs do you have to land with.
all of these have been said to dispatch on numinous occasions and no one to date has been able to quote any regs to such statements...please help

1. Negative. However, can't burn what you don't have.
2. Declare min fuel not an emergency.
3. Enough fly to our point of landing and on for 45 minutes. Generally around 2400-2700 in the 700.

If you're in dispatch, why haven't you read up on the regs and company requirements?

 

[SiuDude]

1. Negative. However, can't burn what you don't have.
2. Declare min fuel not an emergency.
3. Enough fly to our point of landing and on for 45 minutes. Generally around 2400-2700 in the 700.

If you're in dispatch, why haven't you read up on the regs and company requirements?

Can you quote the reg that supports statement #3?

 

[pave driver]

Just a curious question about fuel. We in dispatch have been told by SEVERAL pilots that
1st. they have to by regs land with not less then 3000lbs.
2nd. if they burn into their reserve. they have to declare an emergency per regs.
3rd. What min fuel requirements per regs do you have to land with.
all of these have been said to dispatch on numinous occasions and no one to date has been able to quote any regs to such statements...please help

An ASA dispatcher will know all of the questions you ask. Ask a dispatcher who is experienced. He or she will help you.

 

[fltdspx]

.
3. Enough fly to our point of landing and on for 45 minutes. Generally around 2400-2700 in the 700.

If you're in dispatch, why haven't you read up on the regs and company requirements?

that is for dispatch not for landing
I am and I have

 

[79%N1]

#3. Enough to land. Period. Regs are for planning.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Just a curious question about fuel. We in dispatch have been told by SEVERAL pilots that
1st. they have to by regs land with not less then 3000lbs.
2nd. if they burn into their reserve. they have to declare an emergency per regs.
3rd. What min fuel requirements per regs do you have to land with.
all of these have been said to dispatch on numinous occasions and no one to date has been able to quote any regs to such statements...please help

1. Wrong
2. Wrong
3. Preferably enough to taxi to the gate when you land, but if you flameout while touching down, that's fine... although you start getting into the "hazardous and reckless" catch all reg if you do that too often.

 

[cheerios2]

"We in dispatch"

you know.... i heard once there was a book with all the regulations in it... Anyone know what this mythical book is called and where i can find one?

 

[Tarzan]

Can you quote the reg that supports statement #3?

Nope.....

 

[Long Time Gone]

Just a curious question about fuel. We in dispatch have been told by SEVERAL pilots that
1st. they have to by regs land with not less then 3000lbs.
2nd. if they burn into their reserve. they have to declare an emergency per regs.
3rd. What min fuel requirements per regs do you have to land with.
all of these have been said to dispatch on numinous occasions and no one to date has been able to quote any regs to such statements...please help

Not to be a butthead, but shouldn't Dispatchers already know all of this? Wouldn't this all be part of your certification or company training?

Like TOOLCRIB said:
1. Wrong, it's zero.
2. Wrong, and even the declaration of "Min Fuel" by someone else is wrong. The only time you really have to declare a fuel emergency would be when the DING sounded. I believe it's 600lbs. but could be wrong. That's why we have recurrent.
3. Like 'CRIB said, preferably enough to taxi to gate, or at least off of the runway.

Planning purposes does not mean actual. I've landed the CR7 with 1600lbs Total Fuel twice. Not that I wanted to, but that's what happened.

Remember this: No paperwork is a good day.

 

[MaceyHold]

Hahaha, hook, line, and sinker. Point made, eh. You'd be surprised how many line guys live by those rules.
FLTDSPX - that "rule" is in the Comfort Zone chapter - that chapter didn't make it into the Flight Control manuals.
Hope things are going well over in the hangar - BTW - good luck on this weeks matchup of the 7th floor league.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Hahaha, hook, line, and sinker. Point made, eh. You'd be surprised how many line guys live by those rules.
FLTDSPX - that "rule" is in the Comfort Zone chapter - that chapter didn't make it into the Flight Control manuals.
Hope things are going well over in the hangar - BTW - good luck on this weeks matchup of the 7th floor league.

Thank Raptor Jesus Almighty, at least one of you figured it out. I was kinda hoping it would go longer before someone had to explain fltdispx's intent. Would have been alot more entertaining.

I'm all for comfort. After all, it's your butt in the business end of that metal tube, not mine...so long as you give me the opportunity to tell you what I see out ahead of you before you make any rash decisions like diverting to an airport with no pax handling facilities or fuel truck drivers that aren't required to pee in a cup at random...decisions strictly based on hard, immovable numbers in you have in your head (that said, it'll be my butt in the business end of a witness chair at a federal inquiry when you become a smoking hole in the ground, so I do have a bit of a vested interest. ).

Well played, my ASA brethren...




Oh yeah, hey ASA DXers...how about a SkyWest/ASA Flight Control Fantasy Football League? No money for the inaugural season...winning office gets bragging rights.

 

[XPOO]

I've heard that Southwest Captain's are given "bonuses" for blocking in with only thier 45 min. reserve left. Any truth to this?

 

[Tarzan]

2. Wrong, and even the declaration of "Min Fuel" by someone else is wrong.

A minimum fuel advisory should be made when it is determined that a
landing at the destination will be made with less than the planned reserve
fuel listed on the Dispatch Release


From the ASA FOM.

 

[Tarzan]

that is for dispatch not for landing
I am and I have

Looks like I read the end of statement incorrectly.

 

[Tarzan]

Can you quote the reg that supports statement #3?

Can now.

14 CFR part 121 fuel requirements for domestic, flag and supplemental:
• All domestic operations:
No person may dispatch or takeoff an airplane unless it has enough fuel
to:
1. Fly to the airport to which it is dispatched;
2. Thereafter, to fly to and land at the most distant alternate airport
(where required) for the airport to which dispatched; and
3. Thereafter, to fly for 45 minutes at normal cruising fuel consumption.

Of course this is all for planning not for the real landing.

 

[JumpersAway]

Emergency Fuel declaration with ATC is at 900 pounds, per the FOM, in the CRJ-200.

 

[CRJ puppy]

This is a flame bait post.

Dispatchers are FAA certficated positions subject to similar exams as pilots take for certification in addition to required medicals, time and duty regs, etc.

ALL of which a dispatcher would be WELL aware of in addition to their specific company's operational policies.

D' oh!

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

Ok a question for dispatchers:
I am holding over ODF in a CR2 going to ATL. KCHA is the filed alternate. KCHA is is not looking that good as an alternate due to wx between me and that airport. The bug-out number that I have arrived at on this day was 4200lbs (reserve+alt+500lbs to get to ATL w/no downwind). I call flt control to see if there is a better option closer to ATL with better wx. They come up with KGSP (49NM from ODF) and a bingo fuel of 3100lbs.

Needles to say I found that number odd. I would not have found it odd if KTOC was my destination, but seeing as it is actually farther away from KATL than KCHA (40NM farther) I found that a bit off.

How do you guys come up with these magic numbers?

I was still going to divert at my number regardless unless I was heading towards KMCN, but they are things that make you go "hmm".

The oh sh!t light on on the CR2 is 900lbs. 1,200lbs for the CR7 and the ATR has a set of bicycle pedals for the FO to use to spin the props if they run low on gas.