Question for AA, DL, CO & UA Pilots

[bafanguy]

dizel8,


I was sitting BEHIND the guy in the white shirt so you couldn't see me...but I had a white shirt on too.

 

[CitationLover]

delta, i believe, for a time wouldn't allow j/s's on due to an accident where they forgot to set the flaps.

i've never had a problem j/s on american or united. the only time i've been denied is by delta, where an airtran guy had grabbed it. part of the problem is trying to be strategic with this. don't j/s on the first flight out on a monday going to a hub city, etc. i even had a united flight where a female FO came up to me in the gate area and said she listed herself so i could j/s, that was class.

 

[spanky2]

My understanding...unlimited jumpseat = negotiating chip...what will DALPA give Delta mgt in return for it? Historically, not high on DALPA's wish list compared to pay / work rules.

All pilots agree that unlimted jumpseat is win-win and does not hurt the company as long as all stand by pax are accounted for and there is not a weight-n-balance issue.

It su# that policies differ amongst air carriers....but, to repeat and flog the de-ad horse...it is company policy and not the CA's call at Mama D.

 

[Dizel8]

"what will DALPA give Delta mgt in return for it?"

Sounds like, GG will get mucho out of this and mostly onesided, so the DAL pilots might as well try to get something in return. Asking for something, that cost essentially nothing to GG, might just work.

 

[NuGuy]

Hi Guys,

Another aspect of this is the effect of other employee groups on the property, especially at carriers who charge pass fees for their own employees. If you enact a policy that allows an unlimited number of off-line "pass riders" with out charge, you really put a wrinkle in the shorts of other employee groups who see it as "pilot pandering". There is already a tremendous amount of "pilot envy" among the ground people already, and this adds to it.

Best,
Nu

 

[embdrvr]

Disclaimer: Not flame bait, just want honest opinions.

Guys and Gals,

I have recently been denied j/s for a third time on Delta due to their "one or two" jumpseaters policy. It is frustrating to watch a half empty plane leave as my last ride home of the night because of this policy.

I don't know who you work for but if I were you I'd carry a pass in my back pocket. The 25 or 30 bucks that you'll spend on that non-rev pass is cheaper than a hotel. I don't non-rev on DAL much so I haven't bought a pass on them in a while. Talk to your travel department. Buy a few passes so you can get home when the jumpseat is taken.

The reason that the legacy carriers like DAL can't carry more than 1 or 2 jumps is largely political. There are lots of pilot-haters in other parts of the company. They see something like unlimited j/s as just another example of pilots receiving special treatment and will kick and scream if unlimited j/s are granted even though they still travel at a higher BP than the OAL j/s'r.

I notice you're a Be-1900 captain. Not Gulfstream by any chance are you? I figure you guys could afford to just buy a ticket given the fact............Ahhh never mind. We won't turn this into another PFT thread.

 

[AA717driver]

I was on the jumpseat committee at AA prior to my furlough. The company's jumpseat policy is a perfect example of their malicious, malevolent corporate culture.

The pass department acts in a capricious and malicious(did I say that before?) manner with strict adherance to the rules regardless of extenuating circumstances.

Any pilot who... Wait, the pilot doesen't even control access to the jumpseat. The gate agent has authority over who can even make it to the jetway. The captain can only refuse a jumpseater he doesn't feel meets the requirements.

If the captain tried to force a jumpseater on against the wishes of the agent, he would certainly get written up by the agent and probably disciplined by the front office.

In the last negotiations, we tried to get a better deal for both furloughees and OAL jumpseaters. We got stuffed.

AA management(at Centerpork) SUCKS.TC

 

[JethroF15]

Thanks!!!

I just want to say a big THANKS! to the DAL pilots. I have had to JS on a few occations when DAL pilots were already listed on the JS. I didn't even have to ask one of then to fly on a pass... as soon as they saw me talking to the gate agent they came to the rescue and offer to fly on a pass and let me have the JS ride. I know it's not the line pilots who make the policy. Thanks again DAL line guys.

 

[BuckO]

bafanguy,


My experience: I have had a few DL captains over ride the "policy" and allow more than 1 js on his aircraft.
However, it seems like the heavy guys are the "cool ones". The narrow body guy get bent out of shape if someone asks to ride with the js taken.
One DL captain explained it to my like this, "it is a policy but...we can over ride it if we want to"

The bottom line is we are just people trying to get to work or get home to our families.

 

[aewanabe]

Hi Guys,

Another aspect of this is the effect of other employee groups on the property, especially at carriers who charge pass fees for their own employees. If you enact a policy that allows an unlimited number of off-line "pass riders" with out charge, you really put a wrinkle in the shorts of other employee groups who see it as "pilot pandering". There is already a tremendous amount of "pilot envy" among the ground people already, and this adds to it.

Best,
Nu

Bingo! NuGuy wins the prize. United, AA, Northwest and Continental all have to pay to ride on their own carriers, and in the case of AA they even pay to ride on Eagle/AX. Don't know about NW or CO but at UA and AA they also pay more to ride in First Class. Now imagine how happy the gate agents (who already love us anyway) are to see the First Class cabin filled with OAL jumpseaters riding FREE when they have to pay even to sit in 35E. I just don't see this happening at Mainline carriers that charge their own employees to ride. However, note that US went to unlimited j/s and does not charge their employees anything to ride in coach. Similarly, DL is free/unlimited both for coach and domestic First for their employees, so maybe getting the j/s opened up wouldn't cheese off so many of the ground-pounders.

 

[Vortilon]

Banaf,

Sorry to hear you think following the rules = getting bent out of shape.

Inentionally disregarding the FOM on a non safety-of-flight issue is grounds for termination, or at the very least a hard PP slapping.

 

[bafanguy]

Vortilon,


Maybe you should reread my original post as you've seriously misunterpreted what I said. If anything, all I did was support sticking with the FOM...period. And, that the policy is out of our control but it is STILL THE POLICY by which we are bound.

Frankly, I have no idea where you're coming from with your comments. I'm certainly not "bent out of shape". All I meant was that line pilots have no control over their airline's JS policy and anyone who got "bent out of shape" with the captain because he wouldn't violate that policy is being irrational.

You'd think other airline pilots would already undertand this, wouldn't you ?

 

[khsgt]

I notice you're a Be-1900 captain. Not Gulfstream by any chance are you? I figure you guys could afford to just buy a ticket given the fact............Ahhh never mind. We won't turn this into another PFT thread.

You are not being nice. You need to be exceptionally careful before throwing serious accusations like that out. Came up through 3 years of flight instructing to get to work at my "Son Of A Beech" company, and I am obviousouly still paying my dues.

On a lighter note : COMMON, I'm a broke B1900 Captain.....25 bucks for a pass....heck that's dinner for a week! And I'm one step higher on the ladder of misery then gulfstream....mesa.

I'm going to ponder as to what i'm going to do from here on out with mainline jumpseaters...my biggest problem is I have trouble being a big enough ahole to actually kick somebody off due to this...even I don't think I am that pissed off yet (key word). I suspect I'll just stay pissed off, and give any mainliner an earful before I tell em to sit back and enjoy the flight.

 

[Vortilon]

BanAf, sorry that was SUPPOSED to be for BuckO.....

wrong "B" name....sorry!

 

[embdrvr]

You are not being nice. You need to be exceptionally careful before throwing serious accusations like that out. Came up through 3 years of flight instructing to get to work at my "Son Of A Beech" company, and I am obviousouly still paying my dues.

On a lighter note : COMMON, I'm a broke B1900 Captain.....25 bucks for a pass....heck that's dinner for a week! And I'm one step higher on the ladder of misery then gulfstream....mesa.

I'm going to ponder as to what i'm going to do from here on out with mainline jumpseaters...my biggest problem is I have trouble being a big enough ahole to actually kick somebody off due to this...even I don't think I am that pissed off yet (key word). I suspect I'll just stay pissed off, and give any mainliner an earful before I tell em to sit back and enjoy the flight.

You don't read very well do you. I was making a joke and did not suggest you work for Gulfstream. I had no idea where you work. If you vent to the mainliners you'll be preaching to the choir. Give it a rest. Everyone wants unlimited jumpseats. Don't ever play politics with the jumpseat either. That will bite you in the arse.

 

[bafanguy]

Vortilon,


No sweat, Bro...