Question about the "Capt. wants to descend below mins" interview question

[QuasarZ]

both answers have some grey area. Continuing to find runway is dangerous, and fighting for controls is too...

 

[Papps]

...and continuing an approach below minimums isn't??

you will find the runway if you continue below mins. You may find all sorts of things if you have 2 retards trying to fly 1 airplane.

 

[siucavflight]

...and continuing an approach below minimums isn't??

At that point it becomes which is more dangerous?

 

[norskman2]

both answers have some grey area. Continuing to find runway is dangerous, and fighting for controls is too...

Geez, finally a reasonable answer.

This is a "Kobayashi Maru" question. There is no right answer. That's why they ask it in the interview -- to see if you can a) think on your feet b) exercise sound judgement

Anybody out there a senior Captain who sits on an interview panel? Do you ding someone who says "fight for the controls" or do you give them a thumbs up if they advocate for it in a reasonable and intelligent manner?

If someone says "suck up the gear" do you heave them out of the interview room?

 

[Starscream]

you will find the runway if you continue below mins. You may find all sorts of things if you have 2 retards trying to fly 1 airplane.

Then why do minimums exist?

I'm surprised no one mentioned this scenario especially for the ones who advocate not initiating a go around, cause he'll just safely fly the glideslope down to the flare..............

WHAT IF THIS IS ON A NON-PRECISION APPROACH?

FO: MDA
CA: Rog, leaving MDA -- it's down here somewhere...........
FO: MDA, MISSED APPROACH!
CA: It's down here somewhere.............hey that looks like a flashing white light............

Y'all just gonna sit by and hope he doesn't pull a CFIT?

If you firewall the throttles, you're not fighting for control, and there is virtually no way he'll be able to continue descending, since he'll be trimmed for Vapp.

 

[QuasarZ]

Then why do minimums exist?

I'm surprised no one mentioned this scenario especially for the ones who advocate not initiating a go around, cause he'll just safely fly the glideslope down to the flare..............

WHAT IF THIS IS ON A NON-PRECISION APPROACH?

FO: MDA
CA: Rog, leaving MDA -- it's down here somewhere...........
FO: MDA, MISSED APPROACH!
CA: It's down here somewhere.............hey that looks like a flashing white light............

Y'all just gonna sit by and hope he doesn't pull a CFIT?

If you firewall the throttles, you're not fighting for control, and there is virtually no way he'll be able to continue descending, since he'll be trimmed for Vapp.

True, never thought about non precision. So you say firewall it and it and cause it to climb for a go around?

 

[Starscream]

True, never thought about non precision. So you say firewall it and it and cause it to climb for a go around?

When in doubt climb. No one ever crashed into the sky.

 

[Papps]

Then why do minimums exist?

I'm surprised no one mentioned this scenario especially for the ones who advocate not initiating a go around, cause he'll just safely fly the glideslope down to the flare..............

WHAT IF THIS IS ON A NON-PRECISION APPROACH?

FO: MDA
CA: Rog, leaving MDA -- it's down here somewhere...........
FO: MDA, MISSED APPROACH!
CA: It's down here somewhere.............hey that looks like a flashing white light............

Y'all just gonna sit by and hope he doesn't pull a CFIT?

If you firewall the throttles, you're not fighting for control, and there is virtually no way he'll be able to continue descending, since he'll be trimmed for Vapp.

or what if its in an NDB approach, or what if its a non precision approach without the local altimeter, or what if its a non-precision in terrain with an engine on fire, and the flight attendant just told you that she's pregnant after your overnight with her last month.

You can beat this question into the ground with a billion different senerios. My point is to avoid battling for control of a plane at less than 200 agl.

If you have super pilot skills that you got from the FSDO the day you got your CFI last year, then karate chop the captain in the neck and assume command of the flight. Tell you the truth I don't care what you do as long as your not flying with me.

I agree with you a guy flying a cat C or D airplane that leaves MDA with nothing in site is retarded and suicidal. You may want to say "go around" and if he dosent respond say "my controls". Thats something they call experience.

 

[Papps]

I love how this thread assumes all FOs are clueless thumb-suckers and all Capts are God's gift to aviation.

When you get beyond the scope of the mid-twenties Capt. and the fresh outa school FO, you might think something different.

How about an older Capt with a heart problem? How about you're finishing a red-eye and the Capt. is falling asleep?

I've seen some nice "I'm invincible" mentalities in some of these posts.

If you're the Capt., and you miss your calls, you screwed up. If the FO questions you, that is his job!

Actually the tone of this thread seems to assume that the captain is dead, dying, asleep, deliberately breaking FAR's or blissfully unaware that he has passed the missed. None of those place the captain in the gods gift to aviation category.

 

[Rook]

When in doubt climb. No one ever crashed into the sky.

Sage advice.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Actually the tone of this thread seems to assume that the captain is dead, dying, asleep, deliberately breaking FAR's or blissfully unaware that he has passed the missed. None of those place the captain in the gods gift to aviation category.

That was how I was looking at this thread, too, originally. And I think that that was the original question.

Then there were a few posts of, "If any of you FOmos touches my stuff, I'll kill ya!" i.e. let the Captain do whatever and write it up later.

But you're right, Papps, that's what this thread is really getting after.

 

[QuasarZ]

That was how I was looking at this thread, too, originally. And I think that that was the original question.

Then there were a few posts of, "If any of you FOmos touches my stuff, I'll kill ya!" i.e. let the Captain do whatever and write it up later.

But you're right, Papps, that's what this thread is really getting after.

I guess that was the general direction that my question was going. Not sure what condition the capt is in during this interview question. I would assume that the capt would be incapacitated and I would need to take over. No sain pilot would put everyone in danger to try and "find" the airport.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

After reading 100+ responses, I'm still unsure of one single best answer.

If I ever get asked this question in an interview, I'm just going to change the subject to BBQ.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am sure the interviewing company has more trust in thier captains then they do in the fresh kid wanna be sitting there in a nice blue suit... saying... "put me in coach, I am ready to play....just give me a shot...I'll do anything...."

The questions, as poor as it is to rate an applicant, is about the applicant..not the captain, the approach type or anything else you want it to be...

 

[Dodge4SRT]

I can't believe I just wasted my time reading this. I am wondering after reading the posts, minus the jokes (which were funny), why planes don't fall out of the sky more often. There were only a few people who actually wrote logical responses. Unbelievable.

 

[Papps]

I can't believe I just wasted my time reading this. I am wondering after reading the posts, minus the jokes (which were funny), why planes don't fall out of the sky more often. There were only a few people who actually wrote logical responses. Unbelievable.

Who did?

 

[ratherbeflyen]

I am curious about how to answer this question.
Getting nervous about my interview!

Don't overthink this, like a lot of the responces. It's a judgement / character question. There is no "right" answer. I'd say theres no wrong answer either, but I suppose someone would say pull the gear up or turn on my cell phone and call the fsdo to report the captain. Those would be wrong answers. Your going to either let the landing happen or your going to take over. Pick the one YOU WOULD DO AND GIVE YOUR REASONS WHY. Thats the test question.

Where I work now the question was 90kts. and the CA isn't wearing their seat belt. I said "I would do nothing because the safety of high speed aborts is statisticly not very good. Then after the plane was cleaned up mention it to the CA."

A good friend of mine said he'd abort to the same question. His reason was seatbelts are a checklist item and what else did they miss?

We both got the job.

 

[Striptyler]

Chuck Norris would simply roundhouse the CA, and then land, because he has no minimums.

 

[Snapshot]

Sublime

Chuck Norris would simply roundhouse the CA, and then land, because he has no minimums.

The perfect way to end the thread!

 

[Flyin2low]

I am curious about how to answer this question. I know you first want to call out minimums, and then do it again more forcefully and maybe nudge him to make sure he is awake/alive, and then call missed appraoch. This is where my question is. At this point if he still wants to go down-
Do you try to take controls, or let him fly it down with the guidance of the instruments? I don't think it would be to safe to fight for the controls so close to the ground. Wouldn't it be safer to let him fly it down, and hope you break out, rather than fight it and casue more problems that close to the ground?

Any help is appreciated. Getting nervous about my interview!

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X29294&key=1

NTSB Identification: ATL89IA219 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 40455.
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of AIRCRAFT MARKETING INC., (D.B.A. WRANGLER AVIATION )
Incident occurred Tuesday, September 26, 1989 in GREENSBORO, NC
Probable Cause Approval Date: 8/26/1992
Aircraft: CANADAIR CL-44, registration: N104BB
Injuries: 3 Uninjured.WHILE ATTEMPTING AN INSTRUMENT APPROACH TO GREENSBORO, NC, THE FIRST OFFICER REFUSED TO FOLLOW MISSED APPROACH INSTRUCTIONS AND TOOK THE FLIGHT CONTROLS FROM THE CAPTAIN. AFTER A STRUGGLE, THE CAPTAIN AND FLIGHT ENGINEER REGAINED CONTROL OF THE AIRPLANE. DURING THE STRUGGLE, THE AIRPLANE CAME WITHIN 30 FEET OF COLLIDING WITH A PASSENGER TERMINAL AND PARKED AIRPLANES. THE FIRST OFFICER'S MENTAL STATE WAS SUCH THAT HE BELIEVED THAT HIS ACTIONS WERE IN ACCORDANCE WITH COMPANY POLICIES.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident as follows:
THE FIRST OFFICER'S FAILURE TO FOLLOW APPROVED MISSED APPROACH PROCEDURES, AND HIS ATTEMPT TO TAKE THE FLIGHT CONTROLS FROM THE CAPTAIN WHO WAS FLYING THE AIRPLANE.

 

[cougarx530]

In interviews, I would like to see you be assertive enough to keep the aircraft from crashing into the ground. Whatever it takes, call it out loudley "Ca,Go around NOW!" Call it out with ATC, and if it requires more, then do your JOB! Why does it have to be a fight for the controls, how do you know the other pilot isn't asleep? Microsleep issues do exist! It may not be intentional, maybe their INT volume got turned down accidentally, or they're in a daydream. I doubt anyone is gonna wrestle with you that low if you take the controls, If the Capt. is crazy enough to fight you for the controls, you have bigger problems, but by adding GA power, will arrest the descent rate and get you climbing, and hopefully this stubborn Capt will be shaken from his/her zone.

There isn't a right or wrong answer, most interviewers are just looking to see what your level of assertion is? Either answer will be acceptable, they also want to see your answer, then see if they can get you to change your answer, by their reaction to your answer.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

How did the interview go? Did they even ask you the below mins question?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Answer the question like a politician. Avoid the question altogether. Just give an answer to a question that WASN'T asked and do it cheerfully.

 

[QuasarZ]

Quote deal isn't working so to Ratherbeflyen... the interview went really well and they didn't even ask the question!

 

[OPECJet]

Don't overthink this, like a lot of the responces. It's a judgement / character question. There is no "right" answer. I'd say theres no wrong answer either, but I suppose someone would say pull the gear up or turn on my cell phone and call the fsdo to report the captain. Those would be wrong answers. Your going to either let the landing happen or your going to take over. Pick the one YOU WOULD DO AND GIVE YOUR REASONS WHY. Thats the test question.

Where I work now the question was 90kts. and the CA isn't wearing their seat belt. I said "I would do nothing because the safety of high speed aborts is statisticly not very good. Then after the plane was cleaned up mention it to the CA."

A good friend of mine said he'd abort to the same question. His reason was seatbelts are a checklist item and what else did they miss?

We both got the job.

Throw a little fuel on the fire....

With that question, ask if you're the PF or PM. If you're the PF, tell them you wouldn't notice the captain wasn't wearing his harness because you're focused on maintaining the runway centerline. If you're the PM, tell them you wouldn't notice the harness because you're monitoring aircraft performance during the takeoff roll.:bomb:

 

[difete]

I would tell him: "sure, you can go below mins as long as you buy all the beers in hell."

 

[climbhappy]

i wouldn't buy that peez of chit a beer. i'd whoop his ass, then boo hoo to the FA and tell her i really need somebody tonight. and buy her a beer

 

[Trout]

The question that keeps popping up in my head has to do with the way Alaska's flight handbook is written. At minimums on a CAT II/III, if the captain doesn't say "landing," the FO's call is, "I have it, going around." Theoretically the FO is taking control of the aircraft at 50' to execute a missed approach

Is this unique to 2 crew flying?

I fly single pilot and I know that the hardest part of flying an approach for me is flying the miss. It feels strange. Save me the lectures but I always assume I will finish the approach with a landing. I can see the logic in having the NFP assume FP duties and flying the miss.

 

[crzepilot]

You guys are all wrong!

I am TRULY shocked NO ONE got the correct answer:

The best answer is to bitch slap the captain if he goes below minimums, put on your Riddle baseball cap, and execute a missed, therefore saving the day like Tom Cruise in Top Gun. Oh, and make sure your gel spiked hair is well frosted before trying any of this.

I have not laughed so hard in a long time.

- By the way all you aspiring airline pilots another way to answer the question is. Airlines are in the business of transporting people for money and in order to provide customer service "minimums " should be viewed as a guidline only and you would never want to inconvience a customer by executing a go -around.

- On the other hand I was watching my KING Schools video while updating my super cool airline pilot myspace.com page and they said that " a clearance to land is a clearance to go - around"

- If the captain goes too far below minimums and doesn't execute the missed. let him land and ask him what he is trying to prove and that his ego is writing checks his body can't cash. He will then inform you that he has been in the aircraft so long that he knows the limitations of the plane. As well as extensive training in CRJ FTD.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

- If the captain goes too far below minimums and doesn't execute the missed. let him land and ask him what he is trying to prove and that his ego is writing checks his body can't cash. He will then inform you that he has been in the aircraft so long that he knows the limitations of the plane. As well as extensive training in CRJ FTD.

Do you then challenge him to a game of volleyball?