Question about Southwest...

[BrokenWing]

InHot,

I stand corrected. I just looked at the web page and apparently things have changed. As it reads now, all AC time and all "Primary" (First pilot) time after upgrading to AC in that aircraft can be counted toward that magical PIC number. This is really a big change because several guys in my unit (myself included) where just waiting to get those 1000 hours after upgrading to AC to put in there SWA apps. Sorry if I caused any confusion. You know what they say, "Live by the gouge die by the gouge." Good luck.

Fly Safe
ck130

ck130,

I think you may have missed on this one. Here's the ref from the SWA web site:

"For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. "

I don't think this means that you can log all your time as PIC time once you've upgraded. If you haven't signed for the plane, you can't count it as PIC time. Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

"For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. When converting taxi time a conversion factor of .3 or eighteen minutes, per leg/sortie should be used. These guidelines are imposed by Southwest Airlines for the purpose of standardizing the calculation of flight time. "


If you read the very next sentence in the paragraph you're quoting, it does say that primary time (first pilot time) is PIC time after upgrade to aircraft commander. Another detail I just noticed, is that military pilots can add a 0.3 per LEG. At least in Navy/Marine log books, that means you have to look in the far right column of your log book entry and see how many destinations were flown to on that particular navflir. For example, if I logged a 7.0 for a RJOI-RKTH-ROTM-RJOI, then I can add an extra 0.9 to that flight time total. Heck, that's a better deal than the no-matching Thrift Savings Plan.

 

[BrokenWing]

That's a pretty liberal interpretation considering the .3 hour conversion is for TAXI time. You may have a tough time explaining your .3 addition per leg during the logbook review.

 

[Magic]

For what it's worth,

If you accomplished a full stop landing and a subsequent takeoff, the .3 can be added for each leg as it is counted as a separate sortie. Doing a drop in for a touch & go doesn't count.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

OK BrokenWing, I'll give you the benefit here and assume you thought my previous post was a local instrument training flight where I never executed a full stop. Let me make this a little more clear. I take off from RJOI in a C-12 and fly to RKTH (1.5 hrs), shut down on the south ramp to refuel and pick up 5 pax. Then I fly to ROTM (3.5 hrs), shut down and drop the pax off. Refuel and have lunch with the crew. Then we fly back home to RJOI (2.0 hrs). That's three separate legs, and yes, three separate TAXI evolutions, and hell yes, I'm adding 0.9 to that day's flight time total. And based on Southwest's own wording, you better believe I can explain that in all good faith at an interview if I had to. I'm a helo bubba, and I am certainly not going to cheat myself out of legitimate MEFW flight time if there's no question about it's validity.

 

[BrokenWing]

Your explanation is right on. In your original post you made it sound like you could add .3 for each leg, not for each sortie. I don't blame you for adding the .3 for each sortie as you're allowed to do - good luck towards your goal.

 

[YeOldeProp]

Just to throw a bit more gas onto the fire, what's the concensus on the "Time logged as Other Time will not be considered" (mentioned by Phrogs4ever)? If I'm the PIC (A-code on the flight orders for USAF types) on a mission with a couple of younger pilots and let them take the seats for a leg, I'm still considered PIC (responsible for the aircraft and crew) even if I'm standing and watching over their shoulder. Or, on one aircraft I flew, we carried an "NVG safety pilot" along on some missions, and when the night was done, the times got split among the pilots 3-ways (giving me a bunch of extra "other time"). But I was the A-code for the entire mission. This makes it interesting when you try to add up your PIC and your SIC, and then have your complete, overall total time showing several hundred hours higher. I have the mins for most apps covered and have chosen to try and ignore the other time as much as I can, but thought the group might have some comments on the subject. Be interesting to hear...

 

[Magic]

FWIW I counted NO "Other" time even though, like you, there were times I logged it when I was technically the PIC. There wasn't enough to make it worth raising anyone's eyebrow. Had I kept a civilian logbook and dutifully logged all of my time, I still wouldn't have used it. I would ALWAYS take the conservative approach. My goal is to not have worry about explaining ANYTHING about my flying time at an interview.

 

[Cosmo007]

YeOldeProp,

I totally agree with Magic. I also went the conservative route to keep things simple and easy. As mentioned in my previous post, I lost about 175 hours of true "A" time due to three pilot crews on P-3's. I had the mins without it, so I didn't use it, and it kept my flight times equal (TPT="A"+SIC+Student). Got not even a blink about logbooks/flight time at my interview, but it would have been easy to answer any questions.

Cosmo007

 

[Shooter38]

Ditto to Cosmo's post

Same for me, I did not want ANY doubts that I tried to count other time (~300 hrs). Yes, I had the mins by a decent amount so I figured it didn't matter. They didn't ask one question about my logbook at the interview, and the review lasted all of 2 mins asking about people the checker might have commonly known.

The funny thing was that after I subtracted all other time, and added the .3 conversion, it was within 10 hrs! Guess all those 1.1 T-38 sorties added up...

The other situation I ran into was what to do when I flew with another instructor. Our flight records have no "A" code like the navy or MWS, so I just figured a conservative % of the time I was not the senior IP, and subtracted it.

Keep it conservative and as easy to understand as possible, and you'll be fine.