question about flying for PSA

[bgaviator]

I need some advice. I currently work as an aircraft dispatcher for a 121 airline....but I was just on PSA's web site today and they aren't listing any min flight times for pilots....just commercial/multi/instrument.
I'll be honest, I haven't flown a plane in 2 years and I only have 14 multi engine....but are they so desperate they would still maybe look at someone like me? Do you think I would need to go get current and really brush up before even thinking about it? thanks.

 

[LandRoverNut]

Yes, they are desperate all regionals are getting desperate. I would get as much brush up as I could. Sim evals during interviews and it may help during your training to be current. Just my 2 cents hope it helps!

 

[nethan]

You are going to get an earful about PSA in general in a few posts I'm sure. That aside, with only 14 multi they may look at you, but from what I have been seeing, they are still taking guys with 600-800 TT and 50-100 multi. However, that pool may be drying up and hence the no mins thing. Can't hurt to throw an app in. Just be ready for the IFR work in the sim if/when you get a call back.

 

[LoveGun]

Brush up so I don't have to teach you how to fly with 70 pax in the back.

 

[d328pilot]

They will look at you. If you are breathing they will take you. There is a reason that PSA is the only regional whos mins are comm/multi/inst.... And it isnt because they are nice.

 

[Sawmill]

Brush up so I don't have to teach you how to fly with 70 pax in the back.

Yeah! Especially since you already knew how to fly pax before you ever did it the first time! I seem to remember a couple of fcukstick captains when I was at PSA...bet you were one of them.

 

[ex j-41]

Here is a new low for PSA Management....If you call in sick you will get a 0 (Zero) paycheck. Then after you play the 15 phone calls game to get it sorted out you will get an answer of ...."next check will sort it all out", basically they are punishing you if you call in sick. So do they want us to fly sick? Makes you wonder.

 

[scouts out!]

You don't want to come here, we all hate it here, we hate our Mgt. they hate us. Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does. You are going to do what you want anyhow, but you should stop and think why is there no flight time requirement to work here anymore. This Mgt will treat you with nothing but disrespect. Schedules are horrible, on average a senior 20+ year guy can get at best 14 days off sometimes 13 if lucky 15, on top of that trips are not commutable. They will intentially jack up your pay. Example, 5th paycheck is half your garuantee (37.5 hours) if from april 16 - 30 your scheduled to fly 63 hours and you are out sick for 38 hours, your pay on 5 May will be ZERO with just a little for your per diem advance maybe $200, regardless of what you flew or how much sick time you have. Your sick time will be paid to you on the 20th. Scheduling will not ever work with you, because if they do they will get in trouble for doing a crew member a favor. We accrue personal days off every year but when you try to use them, they deny you 99% of the time. This mgt group can't be trusted, should things improve here, it will be just long enough to get staffing up, then it is back to the same ole crap. Then there is the matter of sitting hot reserve for ten hours at the airport with no pay. Constant junior mans, extensions. Did I mention how poor management and pilot relations were? Life here at PSA sucks, it used to be a good place to be, but our current mgt does everything to make quality of life as bad as possible and screw you financially. Ask a few of the military guys here what the company is doing to them, not very patriotic I assure you. If you need the time, then come here get 500 hours and leave for republic, skywest, horizon just don't stick around here and I would suggest brushing up a bit on those flying skills. We have some great crews here, but most everyone is looking at leaving even if it is somewhere temporarily until they get the real job they want. Good luck, just remember life at PSA sucks but if you need to come here to get some time and leave, then welcome.

 

[d328pilot]

I worked 4 days then called off for the last 3 weeks before i quit....i think i had about 20 hours of sick time left too. My final paycheck should have been about 40 hours or so... The check I was mailed?? $0.00. Maybe I will see it sometime.

 

[BeCareful!]

You don't want to come here, we all hate it here, we hate our Mgt. they hate us. Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does. You are going to do what you want anyhow, but you should stop and think why is there no flight time requirement to work here anymore. This Mgt will treat you with nothing but disrespect. Schedules are horrible, on average a senior 20+ year guy can get at best 14 days off sometimes 13 if lucky 15, on top of that trips are not commutable. They will intentially jack up your pay. Example, 5th paycheck is half your garuantee (37.5 hours) if from april 16 - 30 your scheduled to fly 63 hours and you are out sick for 38 hours, your pay on 5 May will be ZERO with just a little for your per diem advance maybe $200, regardless of what you flew or how much sick time you have. Your sick time will be paid to you on the 20th. Scheduling will not ever work with you, because if they do they will get in trouble for doing a crew member a favor. We accrue personal days off every year but when you try to use them, they deny you 99% of the time. This mgt group can't be trusted, should things improve here, it will be just long enough to get staffing up, then it is back to the same ole crap. Then there is the matter of sitting hot reserve for ten hours at the airport with no pay. Constant junior mans, extensions. Did I mention how poor management and pilot relations were? Life here at PSA sucks, it used to be a good place to be, but our current mgt does everything to make quality of life as bad as possible and screw you financially. Ask a few of the military guys here what the company is doing to them, not very patriotic I assure you. If you need the time, then come here get 500 hours and leave for republic, skywest, horizon just don't stick around here and I would suggest brushing up a bit on those flying skills. We have some great crews here, but most everyone is looking at leaving even if it is somewhere temporarily until they get the real job they want. Good luck, just remember life at PSA sucks but if you need to come here to get some time and leave, then welcome.

Gawd dangit, scouts out!, that was the most accurate, complete picture of the current conditions at PSA I've seen yet.

To all those applying: Read scouts out!'s post several times. There are tons of us here who would agree with every word he's written.

BC

 

[LyodChristmas]

Gawd dangit, scouts out!, that was the most accurate, complete picture of the current conditions at PSA I've seen yet.

To all those applying: Read scouts out!'s post several times. There are tons of us here who would agree with every word he's written.

BC

What about the one I posted? HA!




For anyone considering PSA - please read this post
I wrote this to someone who is interviewing, so if you are thinking about coming here please take a minute and read this first. Goodnight!


~Dude please just listen to us! This is not the place you want to be, we all wish someone had told us not to come here. And for the dude that TRIED to question my post about it being the worst all jet regional... well it sure does look like all the other pilots that work here agree with me!

Let’s Review some things.

Reserve in Charlotte is right now TODAY! 2 years (and I'm not talking about getting a build up line maybe, I'm talking to get a hard line)

Charlotte is the only base you can commute from - Dayton and Knoxville if you’re LUCKY, you might be able to commute on one side. Not one line was commutable on both sides out of Dayton and has not been in months. Corporate makes them like that on purpose.

The MAX days off company wide is usually 14 days (sometimes 15 on a build up)

Very very few lines award all weekends off... So you've got that going for you if you work here 20 years!

They mess up the pay checks quite a bit

The pilot group can't all get on one page because we have too many people with different agenda's. PSA has 5 year FO's waiting to upgrade; Lifers; guys that have interviews soon with majors; and Jet for Jobs guys who are pissed because they are being held 9 month. So everyone wants the union to fight for different things so most of the time nothing is accomplished.

Our contract is very weak, and the company violates it all the time, and the only thing you can do is file a grievance and that will take months if not years to be heard. The company knows this so they just break the rules because all that ever happens is they get a slap on the wrist.

Things we have or don't have:

A decent FO pay rate - 29 bucks an hour second year, and 31 for a 3rd year.
What this means is that you'll be poor very poor. Because not only does the rate suck but other things make it hard for you to make some extra money.

NO duty rigs

Half pay for a dead head

Hot reserve at the airport for 10 hours that they only pay you 1.35 an hour for. Most places either don't have hot reserve or you're paid a Min of 3 or 4 hours if you do have to do it

Schedules that have so few days off it's almost impossible to pick up open trips

The open time is MAYBE updated once a day, but never over the weekend.
Which means it's not LIVE so you could be trying to pick up something that already been awarded to someone else. And it will take a day or two to find out if you are approved or denied, and by then you have missed out on something else.

Trip swapping or Dropping very hard if not impossible, Sometimes you can trade a 4 day for a 4 day but never drop it all together.

If you drop a 3 day and pick up a 4 day you will NOT be paid premium pay for your extra day at work. Otherwise known as SDO pay. The company seems to think that there is a difference between picking up a 4 day and having a 3 day and just finding an out and back (1 day trip) in open time and picking that up. NOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU? See what I'm getting at flight school guys? Do you see the scum bag style of Management we have here?

No trip touch for vacations. That means they will fly you right up to the afternoon before the first day of your vacation.

TWO round bidding. Which sucks because if you are right on the line of getting round one or two you never know how many people will bypass round one which means you won't know how far down the list you'll be pushed.

If you’re on reserve and you're a commuter have fun because they don't care and will give you 5am hot reserve your first day and fly you till midnight on your last day. Kind of like I'm doing tomorrow!

You will be required to be current on both airplanes and will not be paid near enough money for your troubles.

HUGE sits at the airport in between flight, I'm doing 4 hours tomorrow.

Trips like this:
First day show at 5am. 6 Legs worth 4 hours of pay

Second day 2 legs worth maybe 2 hours of pay. Get to PNS check for bed bugs at the Microtel (yes the F-ing Microtel)

Show time changes to late shift. day 3 maybe 3 or 4 legs. Get to Savannah late looking for food and you'll notice there is none for miles (a complete violation of the contract, but does this get changed NOOO and you'll lie in bed asking yourself why do I pay union dues?) So once you can't fall asleep from hunger you can walk down to the lobby and buy your ass some microwave meatball from the skany chick that works there. Oh and PS they lock the doors to the hotel because it's in such a nice part of town, I spent Christmas there and I had the microwave food for Christmas diner!

Day 4 late show... 6 or 7 legs or even better maybe 3 or 4 legs with a two 3 hour sits thrown in. Get home mad late!

Overnights with people way older then your parents who just want to slam click. Which in reality won't matter because the overnight is probably around nothing fun or it's so short you just need to go to bed.

A commuter policy that has not been approved by the union and was only put out there to try and make nice when the 900 negotiations were going on. The commuter policy is not recognized by the union and is basically useless, and has some messed up things they can do to you when you call in and try to use it.

Oh ya, The 900's. About every few months the company will come to us and ask if we want to fly them for 50 seat rates. The pilot group will say "shove it" and then the company will take back the offer instead of negotiate.

A Fleet that was promised to be 80 airplanes that only grew to around 40. But hey we'll still take all the guys laid off from Mainline even though US Air didn't hold up their end of the deal. Isn't bankruptsy fun!

You will fly with really cool nice guys and girls - but they have been beaten down for so long it's sucked the life out of them and all they do is complain the whole trip, which will make you complain eventually!

Hmm have I said enough PSA Guys or should I go on... And for you guys that don't work here please don't think I'm just being bitchy, any PSA guy on here can back this up.


Anyways, the list goes on and on and on

- For argument sake, you can ask yourself is Mesa or a place like that worse?

Let’s see....

They have almost the same terrible pay rate (which is a few bucks below places like express jet, sky west etc)

They don't have the best contracts...

But wait they do have a fast upgrades

And they do have some growth

And they're probably not part of this crappy US Airways management team.

- - Most of us wish we had someone tell us this before we came, so take this knowledge and put your resume in with another place. They all suck but they don't all suck this bad my friends!

--- If some of us had been smarter and not held out hope we would be gone. The only reason most of us FO's are sticking around is because we really thought things might get better but they didn't and now we have invested too much time. Please don't make the same mistakes we made.

Look at it like this? Is it to our (PSA FO's) advantages to get on here and tell you this? We NEED you to come so we can get some seniority. Thing is that it's so so bad that we can't let you make this mistake!

~ ~ ~ So my flight school friends what have we learned? I think we have learned there is no reason to come here!

 

[bgaviator]

wow, that was very informative! Thank you. I just keep looking at a few things though. #1. I know I'd take a big pay hit initially, but in long term career goals I'd be making more money as a pilot, than as a dispatcher.....dispatching is nice, but no one even knows what you do outside of the company, and it seems harder than hell to get on with a big 121 airline. My parents live in Dayton, so if the pay was too terrible I could always crash with them.....it's sad that someone who's almost 30 and who pilots aircraft for a living has to crash at home, but I guess that's just the way it is.....if it's a way to eventually fly for a reputable airline, then it may be worth it.....but if you never will be able to upgrade, or get on with a larger airline eventually then why bother. Thanks again for the info everyone.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

10 days off sound good to me, and I'm stuck in Miami *shudder*. ENGLISH MOTHER********************ER, DO YOU SPEAK IT!!!!

 

[Filkster]

I need some advice. I currently work as an aircraft dispatcher for a 121 airline....but I was just on PSA's web site today and they aren't listing any min flight times for pilots....just commercial/multi/instrument.
I'll be honest, I haven't flown a plane in 2 years and I only have 14 multi engine....but are they so desperate they would still maybe look at someone like me? Do you think I would need to go get current and really brush up before even thinking about it? thanks.

You already have a multi?? You are over qualified. Come on in the water sucks. If you really want to fly so bad that you would sell your soul to the least professional nastiest schedulers in the commuter world than come on in. Not a bad time to start a life long career flying 7 leg days and staying a nasty hotels in the worst part of town.

True story, One of our captains was picked up by the police in Mobile, AL. He was walking between the hotel and a gas station for food. The police told him the only people out at night in that part of town were hookers, pimps, dealers and buyers. So if this is the life for you than come on down.

RF

The only brush up you would need is practice pushing buttons and eating bannanas. hoo hoo ha ha...

 

[WSurf]

What about the one I posted? HA!




For anyone considering PSA - please read this post
I wrote this to someone who is interviewing, so if you are thinking about coming here please take a minute and read this first. Goodnight!


~Dude please just listen to us! This is not the place you want to be, we all wish someone had told us not to come here. And for the dude that TRIED to question my post about it being the worst all jet regional... well it sure does look like all the other pilots that work here agree with me!

Let’s Review some things.

Reserve in Charlotte is right now TODAY! 2 years (and I'm not talking about getting a build up line maybe, I'm talking to get a hard line)

Charlotte is the only base you can commute from - Dayton and Knoxville if you’re LUCKY, you might be able to commute on one side. Not one line was commutable on both sides out of Dayton and has not been in months. Corporate makes them like that on purpose.

The MAX days off company wide is usually 14 days (sometimes 15 on a build up)

Very very few lines award all weekends off... So you've got that going for you if you work here 20 years!

They mess up the pay checks quite a bit

The pilot group can't all get on one page because we have too many people with different agenda's. PSA has 5 year FO's waiting to upgrade; Lifers; guys that have interviews soon with majors; and Jet for Jobs guys who are pissed because they are being held 9 month. So everyone wants the union to fight for different things so most of the time nothing is accomplished.

Our contract is very weak, and the company violates it all the time, and the only thing you can do is file a grievance and that will take months if not years to be heard. The company knows this so they just break the rules because all that ever happens is they get a slap on the wrist.

Things we have or don't have:

A decent FO pay rate - 29 bucks an hour second year, and 31 for a 3rd year.
What this means is that you'll be poor very poor. Because not only does the rate suck but other things make it hard for you to make some extra money.

NO duty rigs

Half pay for a dead head

Hot reserve at the airport for 10 hours that they only pay you 1.35 an hour for. Most places either don't have hot reserve or you're paid a Min of 3 or 4 hours if you do have to do it

Schedules that have so few days off it's almost impossible to pick up open trips

The open time is MAYBE updated once a day, but never over the weekend.
Which means it's not LIVE so you could be trying to pick up something that already been awarded to someone else. And it will take a day or two to find out if you are approved or denied, and by then you have missed out on something else.

Trip swapping or Dropping very hard if not impossible, Sometimes you can trade a 4 day for a 4 day but never drop it all together.

If you drop a 3 day and pick up a 4 day you will NOT be paid premium pay for your extra day at work. Otherwise known as SDO pay. The company seems to think that there is a difference between picking up a 4 day and having a 3 day and just finding an out and back (1 day trip) in open time and picking that up. NOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU? See what I'm getting at flight school guys? Do you see the scum bag style of Management we have here?

No trip touch for vacations. That means they will fly you right up to the afternoon before the first day of your vacation.

TWO round bidding. Which sucks because if you are right on the line of getting round one or two you never know how many people will bypass round one which means you won't know how far down the list you'll be pushed.

If you’re on reserve and you're a commuter have fun because they don't care and will give you 5am hot reserve your first day and fly you till midnight on your last day. Kind of like I'm doing tomorrow!

You will be required to be current on both airplanes and will not be paid near enough money for your troubles.

HUGE sits at the airport in between flight, I'm doing 4 hours tomorrow.

Trips like this:
First day show at 5am. 6 Legs worth 4 hours of pay

Second day 2 legs worth maybe 2 hours of pay. Get to PNS check for bed bugs at the Microtel (yes the F-ing Microtel)

Show time changes to late shift. day 3 maybe 3 or 4 legs. Get to Savannah late looking for food and you'll notice there is none for miles (a complete violation of the contract, but does this get changed NOOO and you'll lie in bed asking yourself why do I pay union dues?) So once you can't fall asleep from hunger you can walk down to the lobby and buy your ass some microwave meatball from the skany chick that works there. Oh and PS they lock the doors to the hotel because it's in such a nice part of town, I spent Christmas there and I had the microwave food for Christmas diner!

Day 4 late show... 6 or 7 legs or even better maybe 3 or 4 legs with a two 3 hour sits thrown in. Get home mad late!

Overnights with people way older then your parents who just want to slam click. Which in reality won't matter because the overnight is probably around nothing fun or it's so short you just need to go to bed.

A commuter policy that has not been approved by the union and was only put out there to try and make nice when the 900 negotiations were going on. The commuter policy is not recognized by the union and is basically useless, and has some messed up things they can do to you when you call in and try to use it.

Oh ya, The 900's. About every few months the company will come to us and ask if we want to fly them for 50 seat rates. The pilot group will say "shove it" and then the company will take back the offer instead of negotiate.

A Fleet that was promised to be 80 airplanes that only grew to around 40. But hey we'll still take all the guys laid off from Mainline even though US Air didn't hold up their end of the deal. Isn't bankruptsy fun!

You will fly with really cool nice guys and girls - but they have been beaten down for so long it's sucked the life out of them and all they do is complain the whole trip, which will make you complain eventually!

Hmm have I said enough PSA Guys or should I go on... And for you guys that don't work here please don't think I'm just being bitchy, any PSA guy on here can back this up.


Anyways, the list goes on and on and on

- For argument sake, you can ask yourself is Mesa or a place like that worse?

Let’s see....

They have almost the same terrible pay rate (which is a few bucks below places like express jet, sky west etc)

They don't have the best contracts...

But wait they do have a fast upgrades

And they do have some growth

And they're probably not part of this crappy US Airways management team.

- - Most of us wish we had someone tell us this before we came, so take this knowledge and put your resume in with another place. They all suck but they don't all suck this bad my friends!

--- If some of us had been smarter and not held out hope we would be gone. The only reason most of us FO's are sticking around is because we really thought things might get better but they didn't and now we have invested too much time. Please don't make the same mistakes we made.

Look at it like this? Is it to our (PSA FO's) advantages to get on here and tell you this? We NEED you to come so we can get some seniority. Thing is that it's so so bad that we can't let you make this mistake!

~ ~ ~ So my flight school friends what have we learned? I think we have learned there is no reason to come here!

Holy Crap! Never knew it was bad at the PSA, but I can honestly say PDT isn't that bad! Good Luck two both of us!

 

[Smoking Man]

Here is a new low for PSA Management....If you call in sick you will get a 0 (Zero) paycheck. Then after you play the 15 phone calls game to get it sorted out you will get an answer of ...."next check will sort it all out", basically they are punishing you if you call in sick. So do they want us to fly sick? Makes you wonder.

That is a new low. Although it is a creative new low.

 

[nethan]

True story, One of our captains was picked up by the police in Mobile, AL. He was walking between the hotel and a gas station for food. The police told him the only people out at night in that part of town were hookers, pimps, dealers and buyers. So if this is the life for you than come on down.

Actually it was broad daylight. Yep, that good a neighborhood. In all fairness we actually don't stay there anymore.

 

[bgaviator]

Thanks for all of your inputs. So are there any regionals that any of you DO recommend? I don't have much flight time....almost 400 hours, and only 14 multi....and also keep in mind I haven't flown in almost two years.....the major problem is that I don't make enough as a dispatcher to afford to just take an airplane up to build time...especially not a multi like I need to be doing.

 

[LyodChristmas]

Thanks for all of your inputs. So are there any regionals that any of you DO recommend? I don't have much flight time....almost 400 hours, and only 14 multi....and also keep in mind I haven't flown in almost two years.....the major problem is that I don't make enough as a dispatcher to afford to just take an airplane up to build time...especially not a multi like I need to be doing.

I think you need to think about how you're going to get current in an airplane first. Do you have your CFI? If not you'll need to get that and try and flight instruct somewhere to get yourself back in the airplane enough that you can be comfortable. Or maybe fly trafic watch for someone. You'll need to figure out how to get up to 50 hours of multi time too. Check out www.allatps.com They have a multi time build they offer, and maybe consider a small loan. Go to your local airport on the weekend and drop 100 bucks to go up for an hour first, and gauge where you stand, after 2 years it might be ugly....

Bottom line is that: You have not been in an airplane in two years, I'm guessing your head has not been in a book in two year either. You need to do both for a few solid months before you even worry about getting a job at an airline. I don't think anyone will interview you untill you are current. You also don't want to go into the interview and bomb it. Or worse pass, and then fail out of training because your flight skills are weak.

By the time you get current and get your head back in the ball game the regional picture will have changed and other companies might look better / worse then they do this week.

Good Luck, Let us know how it goes or if you need any more advice!