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Question About A Real Rhino

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Good summary. I worked a lot with the 82d when I was doing OT out of Eglin. Pretty cool capability, all in all. Of course, I'm dreading the first time I shoot a missile at QF-16, but I know the day will come.
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Yeah, that day will come. The F-4G I was crew chief on (69-7207) has been a reef in the Gulf of Mexico (shot down) since 1998. I agree it's a more honorable way to go than spend an eternity baking in the desert or worse...sold for scrap.
 
Thanks Big Wave for an informative post. I had no idea we had a law that required tests against full sized airplanes.

Back when Dinasoars roamed the earth I got to shoot an AIM-7 at a drone in the Phillipines when I was in F-4Gs. It was a thrill, and it would have been even more fun if the rocket motor on the Aim-7 had actually fired. My pilot was happy though, he got to manuver behind it and fire an AIM-9.

Do line crews ever get to shoot at a QF-4, or are they for testing only?
 
Hi Jim(NTexas)--

Combat Archer (the air-to-air Weapons System Evaluation Program--evaluating line men/machines/missiles--run by the 83d Fighter Weapons Squadron at Tyndall) is allocated a small number of full-scale targets (QF-4s) per year. Same rules--if they're not hit by the instrumented (vice warhead) missiles, they get to shoot again.

We had a period when the 83d hit a few of our QF-4s in the tail with instrumented missiles, and we brought the airplanes home. We gave the 83d a hard time for it, as repairing the QF-4s to put them up on their next target mission came out of our operations/maintenance budget..."if you're going to hit them, please kill them, wouldja?"
 
I think my ANG F-16C unit is supposed to take part in Combat Archer next spring, but we'll be at Eglin just down the road from Tyndall.
 
It saddens me to see these magnificent aircraft shot down. I don't agree that being a fish refuge is a better fate than being correctly stored. Imagine if they had done that with hundreds of P-38's, P-47's, P-51's, and F-86's. You'd have essentially new aircraft ready to restore and fly again. People are so desperate for P-38's; look at Glacier Girl. Guys risked their lives to recover a P-38 buried 100' in ice in Greenland. It was squashed like a bug, yet it flies again.

That said, Combat Archer is cool. Firing an AIM-9 at a drone was a rush. The guys that fly chase have an even better job. They carry multiple warshots AND some 20mm. When the drone is too badly injured to recover, they get to go in and unleash the dogs.
 
MAGNUM!! said:
Bud in my unit took an approach end cable after blowing a tire on takeoff last week. No shakes, no puking, no Mayday calls...just a standard approach end cable arrestment with a shredded left tire. Amazing.
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"I'm sure it was a spectacular recovery, but without the possibility of a ramp strike or crashing into 8,000 ft. deep of cold ocean water, I bet it didn't have the same sense of urgency that every Naval Aviator faces on every routine carrier landing."

MAGNUM!!

Your anecdote is a great example of my point about the diffence between USN and USAF aviation. What is routine for the every Navy pilot on every carrier flight, is an "amazing' act of airmanship for an AF pilot.

Don't get me wrong, you guys are good, some of the best in the world. And we couldn't fight the GWOT without you. But Navy/USMC carrier pilots are the absolute best, head and shoulders above.
 
Mud Eagle said:
Yup...the next time that the winner of a war is decided based on how well you can land on a boat, the Navy is really gonna kick ass.
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Mud Eagle,

It's all abou getting as close as possible, as fast as possible, to the bad guys so we can engage and destroy. That's what the Navy/USMC does.

The AFEWs take months and months and months to deploy and become operational.
 
Dave's no naval aviator. I've never met a Navy pilot that was nearly the conceited d**khead as he is. He's probably a second wiper on the hangar deck dumping the honey bucket out of the CODs.
 
DaveGriffin said:
"I'm sure it was a spectacular recovery, but without the possibility of a ramp strike or crashing into 8,000 ft. deep of cold ocean water, I bet it didn't have the same sense of urgency that every Naval Aviator faces on every routine carrier landing."

MAGNUM!!

Your anecdote is a great example of my point about the diffence between USN and USAF aviation. What is routine for the every Navy pilot on every carrier flight, is an "amazing' act of airmanship for an AF pilot.

Don't get me wrong, you guys are good, some of the best in the world. And we couldn't fight the GWOT without you. But Navy/USMC carrier pilots are the absolute best, head and shoulders above.
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The "amazing" was sarcasm, Dave. Should've guessed you wouldn't pick up on it.
 
Last year, when we were flying Hurricane Katrina out of Houston's Ellington Field, we recovered at 3 a.m. I was a bit tired and for about ten seconds thought I was in the twilight zone as we drove past several F-4s on the ramp. Turns out they were from Tyndall. Some were grey, with the orange tail but several were painted in camo, like in their heyday. I talked to several of the very fortunate souls who were flying those magnificent beasts. There was an AD Lt Col and several older contractors. They told me that some were painted camo since it was a "heritage" paint scheme. Absolutely gorgeous. Flying the mighty, mighty Rhino will forever be the highlight of my life.
 
Let me rebuke what Dave has said...

There is nothing magical about getting aboard. It takes a touch and feel that not every aviator has, but there is no sense of "urgency"... especially during the day. Ya axial winds or a haneous burble can make it interesting but bagging traps during the day is fun.

Night is another story. I don't like landing on the boat at night, period. There's nothing fun about it but it comes with the job.

There are Navy guys that can't land on the boat, there are Air Force guys that can (and have). I personally know dudes from both categories. Dave just stop talking.
 
SIG600 said:
Let me rebuke what Dave has said...

There is nothing magical about getting aboard. It takes a touch and feel that not every aviator has, but there is no sense of "urgency"... especially during the day. Ya axial winds or a haneous burble can make it interesting but bagging traps during the day is fun.

Night is another story. I don't like landing on the boat at night, period. There's nothing fun about it but it comes with the job.

There are Navy guys that can't land on the boat, there are Air Force guys that can (and have). I personally know dudes from both categories. Dave just stop talking.
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SIG600,

OK, you don’t like my use of the term “sense of urgency”.

Granted, they could both crash and burn. But would you disagree with the statement that an AF pilot preparing to land using an arresting cable has a few less critical issues to deal with, and the prospect of a ramp strike or crashing into a mile deep ocean creates a higher degree of difficulty for a Navy pilot at on a carrier approach?
 
Sheesh

Last I checked, water was just as hard (so to speak) as dirt when you hit it going 100+ knots. The PK of both is dang near 1.0

Why hasn't someone banned this guy yet? I just read through 3 pages of good information interspersed with dodging the occasional DaveGriffin dog poo post. Dave, do you add anything to this board?

Cheers,
Mongoose
 
Ignore

Just put him on your ignore list like most of us and you won't have to suffer through it any more. Thanks for not quoting him.
 
Mongoose69 said:
Last I checked, water was just as hard (so to speak) as dirt when you hit it going 100+ knots. The PK of both is dang near 1.0

Why hasn't someone banned this guy yet? I just read through 3 pages of good information interspersed with dodging the occasional DaveGriffin dog poo post. Dave, do you add anything to this board?

Cheers,
Mongoose
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It's always the same.....AF pukes say: Landing on a boat is no more difficult or dangerous than landing on a 12K ft runway.

That's why you guys have no credibility, even civilians consider you second class to Navy pilots. Landing on the boat is a big deal, regardless of your dismissive attitude.
 
DaveGriffin said:
It's always the same.....AF pukes say: Landing on a boat is no more difficult or dangerous than landing on a 12K ft runway.

That's why you guys have no credibility, even civilians consider you second class to Navy pilots. Landing on the boat is a big deal, regardless of your dismissive attitude.
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For someone who doesn't EITHER of those things, you sure speak with authority.

And, Dave, no AF guy on here has said that. You keep setting up straw men and we'll keep knocking them down. We have "no credibility" because we flip Navy pilots sh**? I was starting to give you the benefit of the doubt since you're a USNA grad, but looks like I was wrong in my assessment. I have never in all my life seen someone who knows so little about aviation say so much.

Remember, it's better to keep your mouth shut and have us think you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.
 
Magnum said:

Remember, it's better to keep your mouth shut and have us think you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.

What doubt ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
To put it simply, using a drag chute is a matter of procedure, the same as selecting reverse or ensuring that your spoilers deploy. Not always required by the airlines to use either, but they do because it's a procedure. Not only that it saves a lot of wear and tear on the brakesand, prevents inadvertantly taxiing into the ramp with hot brakes.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
 
DaveGriffin said:
It's always the same.....AF pukes say: Landing on a boat is no more difficult or dangerous than landing on a 12K ft runway.

That's why you guys have no credibility, even civilians consider you second class to Navy pilots. Landing on the boat is a big deal, regardless of your dismissive attitude.
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Please tell me you're joking about actually being in the Navy. Shut up about CV landings. You haven't earned the right to talk about how hard it is/isn't. You sound like some Middie out for a freaking tour. Seriously, log off now, before you spill your juicebox all over your skirt.
 

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