Quality of ride along part 91 Time (C-402)

[troy]

I've been riding along with our freight departments' 402's and logging the 91 legs that I fly. Any input on this? I'm looking from a future interview standpoint. thanks for the input.

 

[Flight_Line]

It's 91, you are flying it. Log it. Nothing wrong with that. Most of us got probably multi time in a similar way.

 

[FN FAL]

Quality? I thought you were asking as if you were the "customer" and were wondering how that flight time would make you a better pilot.

I would say that if a public service oriented commercial organization such as an airline was considering social contract theory when making this evaluation, they would look at their obligation to society to keep the public safe and look at that flight time as "less valuable" than other kinds of flight time.

 

[SCT]

Just bewarned that since you logged the 402 time, that all 402 system questions will be fair game during a job interview.....

 

[FlightTraker]

That is true, I have been at several airline interviews where someone has logged a few multi hours here and there from the right seat, only to get "shot down" because they can't describe any aircraft systems on the aircraft. They also like to ask what kind of training you received to be able to log time in that aircraft. I don't have a problem with anyone doing this, just be ready to cover your butt if needed.

FlightTraker

 

[blzr]

Had a guy in my new hire class back in 2000 had a logbook FULL of .91 C402 time. Come to find out, it was all ride along time. He was only flying Strait and level, no approaches or landings. He made it through groundschool, but got washed out very soon after his first training flight.

If you see it, LOG it, if you fly it DOUBLE IT. Do whatever you want, just be sure that all your sins will soon find you out. Be careful.

 

[troy]

Lucky me, I get the t/o and landings also (right seat). The insurance company will not let us sit left seat. No matter, I just call for boost pumps, lights, etc and do it from the right. Should make me a good MEI (j/k)

I still have to get the poh and study the systems some. I realized that if I logged it, I'd have to own up to it some time or another. Thanks.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Be careful with boost pumps on the 402. Never used them. Had problems with the B and C models of flooding the engines. Only turn the pumps on if you hear the engine running rough (my opnion)

By the way Have you ever had that problem.

This is with many (at least 10-12) 402s I have had problems with fuel pumps on t/o and landing

Enjoy the 402! Great airplane but of course. summer time with people on board and you lose an engine....GOOD LUCK

 

[RCA]

I did the 402 ride along thing as a pvt pilot. Learned lessons then that I still apply to flying today. It also helped me with actual instrument experience which helped as a CFI. Just try not to let it get to your head. At the airline interview I never brought it up and they never asked.

 

[troy]

I'm amazed at the amount of things that I learn everyday, everywhere. No matter if I'm CFI'n or riding along, I pick up important titbits of information everywhere.

I was going to copy the AFM out of one of the 402's tonight, but I can't get access to the work copier tonight, guess it will have to wait tilll the weekend. No rush anyway. Not going anywhere for awhile.

Thanks!!

 

[Fox-Tree]

I've been riding along with our freight departments' 402's and logging the 91 legs that I fly. Any input on this? I'm looking from a future interview standpoint. thanks for the input.

Are you a required crew member on the aircraft?

 

[minitour]

Are you a required crew member on the aircraft?

If it's Pt 91 and he's sole manipulator and AMEL rated on either his Private, Commercial or ATP Certificate he's good to go.

From what I've been told, I agree with everyone else...just know the aircraft systems/limitations and you should be in good shape. It's part 91...no biggie.

-mini

 

[troy]

Are you a required crew member on the aircraft?

No, don't need to be to log 91 legs.

I've only been logging the empty legs back, too bad they are only about 1.0-1.2hr ea. Oh well, too much ride-along time is bad too.

 

[momalley81]

C402 boost pumps

Be careful with boost pumps on the 402. Never used them. Had problems with the B and C models of flooding the engines. Only turn the pumps on if you hear the engine running rough (my opnion)

By the way Have you ever had that problem.

This is with many (at least 10-12) 402s I have had problems with fuel pumps on t/o and landing

Enjoy the 402! Great airplane but of course. summer time with people on board and you lose an engine....GOOD LUCK

Don't know how long ago you were flying 402's, but there was a service bulliten on the fuel pumps to replace them with a guarded 3 position switch to deal with the engine flooding issue. Low-Off-High; Low for ground ops, takeoff, landing, and anytime vapor lock is suspected, high for engine driven fuel pump failure. It requires you to lift the switch then push forward to avoid accidently flooding the motor when you turn them off.

BTW- You DO have a high-altitude signoff, right? While not a pressurised aircraft, 14 CFR 61.31(g) defines a pressurized aircraft as "an aircraft that has a service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above 25,000 feet MSL" Of course, that's to act as PIC; you're just logging it...

edited to correct a typo

 

[troy]

Don't know how when you were flying 402's, but there was a service bulliten on the fuel pumps to replace them with a guarded 3 position switch to deal with the engine flooding issue. Low-Off-High; Low for ground ops, takeoff, landing, and anytime vapor lock is suspected, high for engine driven fuel pump failure. It requires you to lift the switch then push forward to avoid accidently flooding the motor when you turn them off.

BTW- You DO have a high-altitude signoff, right? While not a pressurised aircraft, 14 CFR 61.31(g) defines a pressurized aircraft as "an aircraft that has a service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above 25,000 feet MSL" Of course, that's to act as PIC; you're just logging it...

I was refering to the low operation of the pumps, and have been cautioned about the engines dying with high boost.

Don't have the signoff, but you said it first. I'm not acting, just logging.

 

[Fox-Tree]

No, don't need to be to log 91 legs.

I've only been logging the empty legs back, too bad they are only about 1.0-1.2hr ea. Oh well, too much ride-along time is bad too.

Sorry - I'm not real familiar with this concept.

You're riding along in the right seat of a 402 while another pilot flies and you're logging the time?

 

[troy]

Sorry - I'm not real familiar with this concept.

You're riding along in the right seat of a 402 while another pilot flies and you're logging the time?

No, flying from the right, usually. Insurance deal.

 

[Fox-Tree]

No, flying from the right, usually. Insurance deal.

What kind of time are you logging this as?

If you're logging PIC as sole manipulator, does that mean the other pilot is not? (pretty nice of him if that's the case).

 

[av8rbama]

What kind of time are you logging this as?

If you're logging PIC as sole manipulator, does that mean the other pilot is not? (pretty nice of him if that's the case).

I do the same thing around here... 402, 414, and 421. Of course, it's just ride-alongs on otherwise single-pilot trips. I fly & log empty legs (from right-seat due to insurance), he flies and logs w/ pax. He's got enough hours to choke a horse and is happy to have some company that will talk shop with him.

 

[troy]

What kind of time are you logging this as?

If you're logging PIC as sole manipulator, does that mean the other pilot is not? (pretty nice of him if that's the case).

correct!

 

[Fox-Tree]

I've been riding along with our freight departments' 402's and logging the 91 legs that I fly. Any input on this? I'm looking from a future interview standpoint. thanks for the input.

Now that I have the facts straight - to answer your question about future interviews......

If you're hoping to eventually get one with Fedex or any other major, I'd put a big asterix next to all that time for them. Don't try to pass it off as anything other than it is. Most don't consider that PIC because you weren't the one signing for the aircraft and responsible for its operation.

Since it's not turbine time, it's not going to fill their PIC requirements anyway so it's not worth getting into a "misunderstanding" over it. Just be honest about what you were doing/how much you learned and they'll probably like your dedication. JMO

 

[troy]

Now that I have the facts straight - to answer your question about future interviews......

If you're hoping to eventually get one with Fedex or any other major, I'd put a big asterix next to all that time for them. Don't try to pass it off as anything other than it is. Most don't consider that PIC because you weren't the one signing for the aircraft and responsible for its operation.

Since it's not turbine time, it's not going to fill their PIC requirements anyway so it's not worth getting into a "misunderstanding" over it. Just be honest about what you were doing/how much you learned and they'll probably like your dedication. JMO

Thanks, I am remarking the flight number, that it was part 91, and the captain's name. I hope that's enough.

 

[Fox-Tree]

Thanks, I am remarking the flight number, that it was part 91, and the captain's name. I hope that's enough.

One other thing that just occurred to me....

Does the aircraft owner/company management or insurance company know you're on board and flying the aircraft?

Since you mentioned flying in the left seat was an insurance issue, I could see an interviewer asking something like that. Then they follow up with.... If they won't let you fly from the left, why would they let you fly from the right? or, turn it into an integrity issue - Do you think it was okay to fly the aircraft without the knowledge of the insurance company?

 

[Joshrk22]

May I ask what company this is for? I'm just curious because I'm wondering if they'd let a student pilot ride along(not fly or log time) just for the experience and the love of aviation. What do you think? And, how do you know an air carrier is Part 91?

 

[troy]

One other thing that just occurred to me....

Does the aircraft owner/company management or insurance company know you're on board and flying the aircraft?

Since you mentioned flying in the left seat was an insurance issue, I could see an interviewer asking something like that. Then they follow up with.... If they won't let you fly from the left, why would they let you fly from the right? or, turn it into an integrity issue - Do you think it was okay to fly the aircraft without the knowledge of the insurance company?

It's been brought up to the owners/CEO's about the left/right seat deal. We used to be able to ride left. We've been cleared to ride right via CEO's and the CP. Not sure about the ins company, I've just cleared it as far as I need to cover my butt.

 

[troy]

May I ask what company this is for? I'm just curious because I'm wondering if they'd let a student pilot ride along(not fly or log time) just for the experience and the love of aviation. What do you think? And, how do you know an air carrier is Part 91?

Dont matter, one must be an employee to ride along anyway. Sorry.

If you are employeed with an FBO, find out if they have empty legs on charters/frieght runs. All other legs are 135. They might let one ride along. Not sure, though.