Q's for you Longhaulers

[Jimbodawg]

Just had some general questions for you guys who fly across the Pacific and Atlantic, etc...

It's been my dream for a long time to fly for a company and end up in Hong Kong one night, another in Paris, then go to work in Rio - you get the idea.

I know that there are limitations on how many hours you can fly in a month, but what are typical examples of your work schedules? Do you fly on transpacific leg per week? How much rest time are you usually given between flights (I imagine a few days to recover from the jet lag)? Do most of you find these long flights fun/rewarding, or do you spend too much time away from your family?

As I understand, a pilot may fly up to 8 hours per flight. If this is true, do you get paid per hour that you are on the plane or is it per hour that you are at the controls (ie - a 10 hour flight)?

Thanks for your input!

 

[AA717driver]

So, you want to be an International Pilot, huh? Sorry, not trying to be condescending.

International rules are vastly different from domestic. 30 in 7 doesn't apply. 8 in 24 doesn't either. I don't know what they are because I haven't done it for awhile but each airline's contract is similar but cockpit staffing can vary.


On the North Atlantic(NAT MNPS--you'd better learn the terminology) generally you have a capt., fo and iro(usually another fo). When the trips stretch beyond 12 hours you get into the need for two complete crews(or a capt. and three fo's).

Ok, someone who knows more than I do can take over... Shouldn't be hard to find someone who fits that description... TC

 

[Jimbodawg]

Thanks I appreciate every bit of info I can get!

 

[HAL]

Actually, the numbers vary depending on how many crew members are used on the flight. Check the FAA website under part 121 Subpart R for the duty time requirements. There are variations for what I have listed below - this is only the basics:

For a two pilot crew, it is the old 8 hours in 24, 32 in 7 with at least one 24 hour period off, 100 hours per month, 1000 per 12 months.

For a "two pilot plus one additional flight crew member" (like a basic DC-10 with engineer, or a 767 with one relief pilot), it is 12 in 24 hours, 120 in 30 days, 300 in 90 days, 1000 in 12 months.

For a "three pilot plus one additional flight crew member" (like a 747 with two relief pilots), there must be "adequate rest periods when on the ground away from home base", and if flight time is over 12 hours the airline must provide sleeping area for the pilots. Also no more than 350 in 90 days, and 1000 in 12 months.

Now, in a more general answer to your question, it is (I think) somewhat unlikely that you'd be flying to all three - Hong Kong, Paris, and Rio - at any passenger airline from any base. Quite often the flights are centered on where your domicile (home base) is. For instance United 747 pilots from San Francisco would probably fly mostly Pacific trips, whereas Chicago pilots would fly more European trips. The Rio trips are also from Chicago, but on a different type of plane. Also, airlines with large and varied fleets tend to concentrate those fleets in certain areas. Northwest for instance flies the DC-10 almost exclusively in the Pacific now, and the A330 to Europe. As a pilot you don't jump around between types very often and so when you make the decision on what type of plane to bid for (assuming you are senior enough to make that kind of decision) that is one of the things you consider; where you want to do your flying. As a Seattle based 767 pilot for Hawaiian, my flights were 99% SEA-HNL and SEA-OGG. Other pilots from HNL flew to Tahiti, Samoa, and many west coast cities, but since I was Seattle based, I flew only the Seattle routes. I chose to do that because I've lived in Seattle for years and my family and friends were there. Yes, I missed out on Tahiti, but it was what I wanted to do.

Some of the single-type cargo airlines like Atlas do fly all over the world, and you certainly could spend nights in Hong Kong, Paris, and Rio. But it is just as likely you'd spend a month shuttling between Anchorage and Seoul, so it isn't all good.

Good luck on your career! And if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

HAL

 

[typhoonpilot]

I know that there are limitations on how many hours you can fly in a month, but what are typical examples of your work schedules?

May 1st 0745 DXB-FCO 1215 6+03 block
May 2nd 1235 FCO-NCE-FCO-DXB 0125 ( May 3rd ) 7+30 block
May 3rd Rest Day
May 4-5-6 Off

May 7th 0235 DXB-PER 1725 10+34 block
May 8th 2230 PER-DXB 0540 ( May 9th ) 10+59 block

That is a three man crew so we get 3 hours of rest each on the flight.

May 9th Rest Day
May 10 Off
May 11-12 Reserve
May 13-14 Off
May 15th 0835 DXB-SIN 1940 7+05 block
May 16th 2100 SIN-BNE 0625 ( May 17 ) 7+25 block
May 18th 0800 BNE-AKL 1255 2+55 blcok
May 19th 1725 AKL-BNE 1850 3+25 block
May 20th 2020 BNE-SIN 0145 ( May 21 ) 7+25 block
May 22nd 0300 SIN-DXB 0620 7+20 block
May 23-28 Off
May 29-31 Reserve


FCO = Rome Fiumicino
NCE = Nice, France
PER = Perth, Western Australia
SIN = Singapore
BNE= Brisbane, Australia
AKL= Auckland, New Zealand
DXB = Dubai of course

How much rest time are you usually given between flights

Most overnights are 24 hours at my company. At home base we usually have a minimum of two local nights free of duty before flying again.

Do most of you find these long flights fun/rewarding, or do you spend too much time away from your family?

Really depends a lot on the person and on the crew. Some trips are a lot of fun if you take the time to go out and see the sights or hang out with the crew other times it can be a little boring, like Heathrow in the winter or Dhaka any time of year. The wife hates trips over 3 days unless I take her with me

As I understand, a pilot may fly up to 8 hours per flight. If this is true, do you get paid per hour that you are on the plane or is it per hour that you are at the controls (ie - a 10 hour flight)?

Depends on the airline again. Mine pays for the total flight time regardless of any rest time taken. The guys double crewing the A340-500 have a sweet deal right now but I doubt that will last. By the rules we operate under we can fly a two man crew for up to 10 hours but have pretty severe duty time limits which is actually the nice part. That forces the company to give three man crews on double sector trips in the middle of the night if the duty time gets close to 11 hours.

We just got a 50 page change to our flight and duty time limits to go with the new European rules. They are so much better than U.S. rules as they actually take into account time of start and number of sectors flown for the determination of duty limts.

Long Haul international flying is a hard lifestyle and it results in fatigue and shortening of life span. The Flying Tigers pilots did a study many years ago that validated that fact.

Typhoonpilot

 

[pondxer]

Ive been dreaming about beeing a longhauler since I was a little kid. Ive now been one for a while and I wouldnt wanna say that its a rewarding lifestyle!

The facts are: working on the backside of your bodyclock, always sleep in strange beds in some strange country, JETLAG

Imagine that you get hooked up with a Captain you dont get along with for a trip (happends sometimes), then you'll have to sit next to him in all quitness for lets say 8+ hours.

No matter how many years youve been flying its always nice to get on the ground for a break, turnarounds are nice. When on longhaul youre stuck in that metal tube for a loooong time.

And airlines are stretching the sectors, adding a crewmember, reducing the rest time and says; you get five hours rest during the flight... F*CK EM, you cant sleep in the crewbunk, especially not when you know that you really need to.

But, longhaul can be nice aswell, and if you get a chance to go longhaul, then go for it. But I prefer shorthaul, 15-20 mins cruise is nice...


Just my reflections...

/Px

 

[Hawker rider]

Don't stare yourself blind on time away from the family doing longhaul. this can just as well happen doing shorthaul, or coprorate.

i just fly 135 and i was gone for 40 days straight, this time only flying within the US and mexico. So didn't go too far away!!

It's a long time to be away from the wife and kids, and with a 2 year old and 6 month old at home, i sure do miss a lot of their growing up! I'd be home more if i would do longhaul al the way around the world!!

 

[TurboS7]

Longhaul=TIRED all the time-but I enjoy it.