Q's for the ASA coalition

[ReportCanoa]

Seriously people, do you honestly think ASA is going to be around long-term? Am I the only one who sees the writing on the wall? And this has nothing to do with the pilots, but a master plan that we have no say in. I say lets burn it down. Coalition of 4, the Three Amigos, or whatever. Who really cares anymore.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

IMHO, ASA will be incorporated into SKW Inc. much like the CHQ Republic Shuttle etc... corp. We will not go away b/c SKW Inc needs us to prevent conflict between the UAL/DL agreements.

 

[FightingIrish]

Seriously people, do you honestly think ASA is going to be around long-term? Am I the only one who sees the writing on the wall? And this has nothing to do with the pilots, but a master plan that we have no say in. I say lets burn it down. Coalition of 4, the Three Amigos, or whatever. Who really cares anymore.

I think your attitude it echoed by some of the current ALPA leadership. Some of us disagree and think ASA could have a bright future. Some of us are tired of the "burn it down" attitude.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Question for the fab 4 opposition.

What are you going to do to get things moving and stop the transfer of airplanes to Skywest. Are you going to continue with the current strategy and if so, when will you get back to the table? What are you going to do to prevent our jobs from being transferred. I have spoken to 2 of the fab 4 and they are making job security priority number 1. What is the opposition saying besides personal attacks?

Generally, in a debate, the burden of proof is on the opponent, not the incumbent.

The current MEC's record is clear. If you think the entire 4 year delay is the MEC's fault, you're seriously deluding yourself.

The question of a game plan goes to the Jackson 5. HOW do they plan to achieve their goals when the entire administration we call ALPA has taken 4+ years? Let's hear more than "we can do it because we're different". Let's hear a GAME PLAN!!!!

 

[ASADriver]

Nice proposal guys, well thought out. But I want numbers. The company offered a pay increase already - 1.5%. How much better are you gonna do?
They offerred 1.60 per diem, how much you gonna get us? What kind of duty rigs, and are you going to say nothing less than SkyWest?
The long call/short call thing's been done.
What QOL improvements?
Why a signing bonus in lieu of back pay?

You get my point? The last company proposal offered everything you say your going to get (minus a bonus). How are you going to do better? And what is the minimum your going to accept?

So let me get this straight. The improvements this group is promising have already been agreed to, but we are still yelling about how the company wants us to take concessions? Which is it?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

The current MEC's record is clear. If you think the entire 4 year delay is the MEC's fault, you're seriously deluding yourself.

This four year plane crash as in any disaster is due to a series of events that lead were we are now.. It's not entirely the MEC's fault nor is it entirely managment's fault. Both sides have made grave errors in judgement that have draged this out to the mess we are in now. The question is do we continue to make the same mistakes or do we learn from our past errors and fix the problems to get this done?

It appears to me that the MEC believes we are still negotiating directly w/ DL under thier rules and negotiating tactics. Fact is we are not and we need to change our mindset to deal w/ our new owners at SKW Inc. Does this mean role over and play dead, No. Yet, with new players comes new rules and must be amendable to our new environment to get what we are seeking. If that means that we need a new starting line up in the MEC then so be it.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This four year plane crash as in any disaster is due to a series of events that lead were we are now.. It's not entirely the MEC's fault nor is it entirely managment's fault. Both sides have made grave errors in judgement that have draged this out to the mess we are in now. The question is do we continue to make the same mistakes or do we learn from our past errors and fix the problems to get this done?

It appears to me that the MEC believes we are still negotiating directly w/ DL under thier rules and negotiating tactics. Fact is we are not and we need to change our mindset to deal w/ our new owners at SKW Inc. Does this mean role over and play dead, No. Yet, with new players comes new rules and must be amendable to our new environment to get what we are seeking. If that means that we need a new starting line up in the MEC then so be it.

Well, we may have to agree to disagree, but I don't think a change in MEC leadership will improve our chances. All it will do is allow some individuals who have done it before to sell us out for personal gain... again.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

After 4 years of being in the trenchs w/ DL the present CNC is tired and battle hardend. It is tx that we brought in fresh troops to finish this up.

 

[John Pennekamp]

After 4 years of being in the trenchs w/ DL the present CNC is tired and battle hardend. It is tx that we brought in fresh troops to finish this up.

As I said on the other post, you're not bringing in fresh troops. You're firing all the troops and the generals, training new ones, then trying to leap back into battle with a bunch of FNGs.

I think that's a very dangerous and foolish strategy.

 

[jegermeister]

With out scope (with Skywest, Inc.) nothing agreed to matters.

Don't give away what we've already won in this new contract for scope. Scope is a great idea in concept, but nearly impossible to make it stick in the real world.

The contract at ALG before the J4J contract gave up a lot for section 1 (scope). It turned out it wasn't worth the paper it was written on.

For example, we had a no furlough clause that protected the people on the list at the date of signing. Sounded like a good idea. By the time we needed it, so many with protection had already gone and so many new people had come on to the property that the only way it would have helped is if they had gotten rid of over half the company. Which they nearly did through furloughs and attrition. As far as transfer of assets were concerned, it got so bad the our company logo on the side of the plane was made into a sticker vs. being painted. So that it could easily be switched from ALG to PDT and back.

Remember that these two companys were both owned by USAir group and both were ALPA carriers. They had also filed a single carrier pettion (to no Avail).

If you are thinking that scope and ALPA coming to Skywest will save the day, you need only look at the folks at ALG now PDT to see how well it works.

I've said this before, we will not get any meaningful advances in ASA's contract until Skywest is done with their union vote. Jerry is trying his hardest to keep APLA off the property. He's not going to give his own people any reason to believe they need a union.

The only way these four folks are going to get a deal before that is to sign a sub par agreement. Is that entirely bad? I don't know. ALG lost the jets to PSA because of our strong contract and their weak MEC.

Who knows what will happen to us. The future of ASA may be tied not only financial decisions, but also emotional ones left from the negotiation of this contract.

Ein kleine Jegermeister