Q for CAT 2 Qualified pilots and planes

[hellas]

hey, we are looking to get our plane and pilots CAT 2 qualified, we have a DA-20 with a pro-line 21, the Q's are:

What does it take to get the avionics up to the task?

What does it take to get the pilots qualified and how often is requal.?

I really would appreciate your knowledge in this area...Thank You

Goooooo Steelers!!

 

[Spooky 1]

CAT ll

hey, we are looking to get our plane and pilots CAT 2 qualified, we have a DA-20 with a pro-line 21, the Q's are:

What does it take to get the avionics up to the task?

What does it take to get the pilots qualified and how often is requal.?

I really would appreciate your knowledge in this area...Thank You

Goooooo Steelers!!

I would imagine that the avionics are satisfactory as you see them.

You will need to create or buy a CATll manual that describes your CATll training program, avionics maintenance program, your specific airplane avionics configuration, and your methods of compliance. There is a Advisory Circular out regarding CATll operations for general aviation aircraft. You will need formal sim training by your training vendor using your FAA approved CATll manual for guidence and compliance. Usually takes a few hours of classroom instruction along with at least one four hour sim session.

You can get assistance in creating the manual from several vendors. Assessment Compliance Group is just one of those that you might use for this manual creation process which is the hardest and most time consuming part of the whole package. With the exception of Gulfstream, I don't believe any of the other mfg's have an off the shelf CATll manual. All others need to create their own from scratch and submit it to their local FSDO for approval. I'm sure someone will correct me if there are other mfg's that have this manual for their respective aircraft. Don't be suprised if your local FSDO is not conversent on this subject, especially if most of their oversight is with GA aircraft. Interesting note; Even Boeing which is CATlllA/B out of the box, does not have an off the shelf CATll/lll manual. Each operator (airline) needs to create their own for FAA approval.

Typical things that you will need to decide are;

Is it going to be a monitored approach?
Verbal callouts.
Coupled or hand flown.
I assume no autoland capability in that airplane so that is not an issue.
Engine out CATll capability?
MEL applications that effect your CATll capability.

CATll recurrent is done once a year along with your normal recurrent. Only takes a couple of additional approaches depending on how your manual has been set up and approved.

When you finally get approval, the FAA will restrict you to a higher min for a predetermined length of time, or number approaches conducted which ever comes first. Typically it would look like RVR1800 and a DA of 150' in lieu of RVR1200 and 100' DA.

Don't know if FedEx did CATll in their Falcons way back when, but there may be some good source material from that era even though your avionics are significantly enhanced.

Hope that helps more than it hurts!

 

[HawkerF/O]

we have a DA-20 with a pro-line 21

Not a lot of those out there. Great Avionics Suite. Very nice........

 

[2000flyer]

Don't you have to do a minimum number of approaches prior to approval as well as a minimum number over a period of time to keep the approval?

A few years ago we looked into it and decided, in our case, the cost out weighed the advantages, mainly after looking our our most used airports, only two or three even had a CATII ILS and in all the years I've been with the company, only once or twice would we have even needed CATII capability to keep the trip to the original time schedule. We ended up delaying buy 30-90 minutes and shooting a CATI approach.

 

[h25b]

Is it really worth it ??? Seems like an awful lot of trouble... I just can't imagine the benefits coming close to cancelling the hassels.

 

[Spooky 1]

Don't you have to do a minimum number of approaches prior to approval as well as a minimum number over a period of time to keep the approval?

A few years ago we looked into it and decided, in our case, the cost out weighed the advantages, mainly after looking our our most used airports, only two or three even had a CATII ILS and in all the years I've been with the company, only once or twice would we have even needed CATII capability to keep the trip to the original time schedule. We ended up delaying buy 30-90 minutes and shooting a CATI approach.

Read the third paragraph from the bottom of my post. Yes, typically you need to do and record one CATll approach every 30 days or what ever your FSDO signs off on. No big deal as it can be clear and a million. Mostly what they are looking for are autopilot/avionic related issues.

Cost vs. enviormental issues are certainly a factor. We happend think the CATll capability far out weighs all other issues and as a matter of fact we are moving towards CATlllA&B as I write this. We have a client that has penalties written into their business plan that need to be addressed and avoided at all costs so we do everything we can to support that mission. Nuff said.

 

[TimsKeeper]

coo-koo coo-koo

 

[Spooky 1]

coo-koo coo-koo

Tim, get back in your bird cage if you can't contribute better than that.

 

[AA717driver]

If you absolutely need it (common destinations are commonly below Cat. I mins.) get it.

Several airlines toyed with the idea of dropping their Cat. II status. Right about then, they had a spate of bad weather and kept it. SWA used to be Cat. I only. Not anymore.

We have Cat. II with our EVS/HUD but I have yet to need it. Cat III A/B is NICE, though. I've used that several times--you don't see NOTHIN' until the nose comes down and you see a couple centerline lights' distance in front of you. TC

P.S.--IMO, if you do the Cat. II thing, monitored approaches are the only way to go. One guy is landing the other is committed to doing a missed all the way down. No mental transition in necessary.

 

[Spooky 1]

If you absolutely need it (common destinations are commonly below Cat. I mins.) get it.

Several airlines toyed with the idea of dropping their Cat. II status. Right about then, they had a spate of bad weather and kept it. SWA used to be Cat. I only. Not anymore.

We have Cat. II with our EVS/HUD but I have yet to need it. Cat III A/B is NICE, though. I've used that several times--you don't see NOTHIN' until the nose comes down and you see a couple centerline lights' distance in front of you. TC

P.S.--IMO, if you do the Cat. II thing, monitored approaches are the only way to go. One guy is landing the other is committed to doing a missed all the way down. No mental transition in necessary.

Haven't thought it all through, but if the Falcon in this example does not have a really great autopilot, and the plan is to hand fly the approach, then the monitored procedure might not be the way to go. One thing to click off the autopilot from a nice stable position and another to say, "I've got it" and get into frey during the last seconds of the approach OMO.

Personally never subscribed to the monitored approach concept but I know there are numerous airlines that do it this way so it is certainly an option.