PSA or ASA

EDUC8-or

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If you had class dates at both, which would you choose and why?

I had my mind set on ASA, but reading about Delta and Chapter 11 has me worried. My wife would make much more in Atlanta. We have close family in Atlanta. Second year pay at ASA looks better than PSA. It appears that there is a little more movement at ASA.

I am more interested in spending more time with my family until my children are in elementary school (5 more years) instead of a quick upgrade at other companies. It appeared that the Atlanta base would be open for ASA so I wouldn't have to commute and spend more time away from my family. I know the only thing for certain in this industry is nothing is certain, but I'm looking for your opinions.

I was equally impressed at both interviews and that is why I highlighted my reasons for putting ASA first.
 

d328pilot

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I dont know much about ASA but I can give you some info on PSA. Things change a lot but US Air is scheduled to come out of CH 11 in October and there is always a possibility of getting more airplanes. If we ever get the full amout we were supposed to get, there will be a lot of movement and fast upgrades. But remember, IF we get the airplanes.

We dont have an ATL base, but both TYS and CLT are close. One guy in my crashpad lives in ATL and drives the commute. If you got CLT, between US Air and Delta there are plenty of chances to get to work.

Pay at ASA is better. Our contract is not amendable for a long time....09 i think. Travel benefits are good at PSA. Free unlimited space available, no fee except taxes on international flights.

Both seem like good companies but I am sure glad to be looking at the light of theh CH 11 tunnel. Good luck in your decision.
 

Jungle Prop

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This question gets asked like 20 times a day on here. You guys need to make this decision for yourselves, no one here knows the right answer. Everybody can guess and what they say today could change tommorrow. Do whats right for you.
 

reospeedwagon

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ASA....PERIOD! You are going to be stuck in the right seat for at least 4+ years at both so you might as well get paid! 2nd year pay at ASA on the 50-seater is better than PSA 2nd year 70-seat rates! The Jets for Jobs program continues to reek havoc at PSA with slotted bidding for former USAir pilots....2 year USAir furloughed pilots are holding hard lines at PSA when 6+ year PSA captains are having to sit reserve; long story. There will be no more growth at PSA...if even a future. I have pasted an article at the bottom for you to read how America West management is approaching Chatauqua, Mesa and Air Wisconsin to put a bid together to fly the E-190 after the merger is finalized,,,PSA is not even listed in the future growth of the merger. America West Pilots Union is fighting the E-190 at the regional level, as they should, so hopefully none of the three will see them. Go to Chataqua if you can. Much brighter future. Good luck.


America West pilots want planned E-190 operations

PHILADELPHIA (Air Transport Intelligence News) - An expected plan by America West Airlines and US Airways to contract a regional operator to fly up to 25 Embraer 190s once the two airlines merge faces opposition from the low-cost carrier's pilots union, which says it expects to "retain that flying" for mainline pilots.

The America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) tells ATI the union is maintaining that any Embraer aircraft in the "E-190 and above" size range and any Bombardier aircraft in the "CSeries and above" range (effectively between 90 and 130 seats) fall within current scope clauses, and should only be operated by mainline employees.

E-190 flying is not permitted under America West's current pilot contract. In contrast, US Airways affiliate carriers can fly up to 25 E-190s "under certain provisions" contained in the latest collective bargaining agreement between the major and its pilots, a spokesman with the US Airways unit of ALPA says.

"This is where the language in both contracts" differ, he says, adding that the issue "will involve some working out".

Transition plan talks between America West pilots and management are scheduled for August 9 and 15. At that time, negotiators for the low-cost carrier's pilot group will make clear that E-190 flying is "a huge issue for us and I think that given the state of the industry and the number of furloughs, we want to protect those jobs", says a spokesman with the America West unit of ALPA.

He notes that that the union is "willing to discuss competitive pay rates with the company" for E-190 flying.

"Our immediate concern is working on a transition plan that will solve these major issues to close the [merger] deal," he adds.

ATI yesterday exclusively revealed that America West and US Airways are issuing a formal request for proposal (RFP) for a regional carrier to operate up to 25 E-190s for the carriers when they eventually merge.

An America West spokesman confirmed that an "early stage RFP" has been circulated to Air Wisconsin, Mesa Air Group, and Republic Airways Holdings.

It is understood that Republic has already asked its pilots' union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 747, to quickly amend the current collective bargaining agreement to allow the regional airline group to operate the E-190 under the parameters of US Airways' jets-for-jobs program.

Mesa currently operates Bombardier CRJ900s for America West. But America West ALPA says the CRJ900 flying "was negotiated to a certain limit and amount", and that the union is not willing to make the same concessions for the E-190.

"We don't want to see anything that violates [America West pilots'] contract," says US Airways ALPA. "That is why we're trying to work out some of these areas. We expect the new management to respect those differences and to work with those union groups."
 

RUhiring?

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reospeedwagon said:
America West management is approaching Chatauqua, Mesa and Air Wisconsin to put a bid together to fly the E-190 after the merger is finalized,,,PSA is not even listed in the future growth of the merger. "
PSA is a wholly owned airline. AWA does not have to have PSA put together a bid. They own PSA!, they know what it would cost to operate and that there are plusses and minuses to the deal. You are simply reading into this that they aren't considering PSA.

The fact is, this is the airline business. No one knows what is going to happen. To say otherwise is pure fantasy.
 

reospeedwagon

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RUhiring? said:
PSA is a wholly owned airline. AWA does not have to have PSA put together a bid. They own PSA!, they know what it would cost to operate and that there are plusses and minuses to the deal. You are simply reading into this that they aren't considering PSA.

The fact is, this is the airline business. No one knows what is going to happen. To say otherwise is pure fantasy.
Here is the another article not favoring PSA....and the ERJ is not the RJ that is going to be replaced. I hate to say it but all the hype of MESA getting the boot is all HYPE! They are going to do a back door re-entry. They are like cancer that is continuing to spread. America West management is calling the shots and they have never had a wholly owned affiliate and do not want the liability when it can be contracted out.



Merged US airline to seek feeder partner for E-190s


But plan to subcontract flying to regional operator faces opposition from pilot unions

America West Airlines and US Airways are preparing the ground to introduce a fleet of up to 25 Embraer 190s on feeder services once the two airlines merge.

A formal request for proposals (RFP) for a regional carrier to operate the 95-seaters is expected, with America West confirming that an “early stage RFP” has been circulated to Air Wisconsin, Mesa Air Group and Republic Airways Holdings. US Airways confirms that its reorganisation plan “contemplates 90-seaters to replace some 50-seaters”, adding that “there is no timeline as to when they would enter service”.

However, the plan to subcontract the operation to a regional partner is facing opposition from the America West pilots union, which says it expects to “retain that flying” for mainline pilots. The America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) is maintaining that any Embraer aircraft in the “E-190 and above” size range and any Bombardier aircraft in the “CSeries and above” range (effectively from 110 seats) fall within current scope clauses, and should only be operated by mainline employees. Although E-190 flying is not permitted under America West’s current pilot contract, US Airways affiliate carriers can fly up to 25 E-190s “under certain provisions”. This is where the language in both contracts differs, says US Airways ALPA, adding that the issue “will involve some working out”.

Talks on the transition plan between America West pilots and management are scheduled to take place this month when negotiators for the pilot group will make clear that E-190 flying is “a huge issue for us and I think that given the state of the industry and the number of furloughs, we want to protect those jobs”, says the America West unit of ALPA.

Meanwhile, the Republic Airways Holdings pilots’ union has agreed to discuss a request from its management to quickly amend the current collective bargaining agreement to allow the group to operate E-190s under the US Airways Express banner. Republic is keen to operate the E-190s under a jets-for-jobs scheme with US Airways, although its current pilot contract does not support that.

The holding company’s proposed start-up Republic Airlines should introduce Embraer 170 services for US Airways Express next month, and the agreement provides for it to potentially operate E-190s when American West and US Airways merge.

Mesa chief executive Jonathan Ornstein confirms that he has received the RFP and is “going to take a good look at it”. Mesa operates Bombardier CRJ900s for America West, but the latter’s ALPA says the CRJ900 flying “was negotiated to a certain limit and amount”, and it is unwilling to make the same concessions for the E-190.
 
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ifly4food

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Don't come to ASA. We have no contract, and management treats us like dirt. Everyone but Mesa makes more than us, and we're about to strike this company out of business.

Every month, half of our new hire class quits. They're going to CoEx and even Eagle. Avoid this dump.
 

puddlejumper101

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i don't have much to say on this...except there are PSA guys that left PSA for ASA...go figure. Choosing an airline is a private decision...if you listen to all of us on this thing you will go crazy. We all base our opinions on experience. Some guys hate this place (ASA), others actually don't mind it...hmm...isn't that the same story at all airlines? I am not saying we don't have problems...because we do, but today's problems at ASA will be tomorrow's problems at COEX, Comair, PSA, Chataqua, etc...we all go through this damn cycle in this industry. If Atlanta seems like a better fit then just come to ASA. I can't speak for you but if family is your number one priority then go with the one that fits in the best...and if you can avoid commuting then do it...we don't get paid enough at any regional to commute if we don't have to.
 

Clipper_Aurora

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Been with PSA flor a year and a half now, I am very happy where I am at. Let me tell you it sucked being bankrupt and having your jet orders go bye bye! Now that we are exiting bankruptcy and while in bankruptcy took delivery of 9 RJ-700's, I don't think they would have givin them to us if they didn't plan to grow us, on the other hand Delta is about to enter bankruptcy and all wholly owns ASA Comair weill join them and it is not fun! you decide....

(CLT...PSA) (ATL...ASA)
not great contract no contract
coming out of bankruptcy going in bankruptcy
all new jets older models
US AIRWAYS DELTA
 

Stifler's Mom

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EDUC8-or said:
My wife would make much more in Atlanta. We have close family in Atlanta.
Based on those two things I would choose ASA. With the way the industry is, it couldn't hurt to have your wife making as much money as possible. Plus the fact that you'll have family near by to help out if you find yourself out of a job someday.
 

loflyer

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RUhiring? said:
PSA is a wholly owned airline. AWA does not have to have PSA put together a bid. They own PSA!, they know what it would cost to operate and that there are plusses and minuses to the deal. You are simply reading into this that they aren't considering PSA.

The fact is, this is the airline business. No one knows what is going to happen. To say otherwise is pure fantasy.
That's true...they are a wholly owned, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't (or wouldn't) participate in an RFP. Just the fact that they are "owned" doesn't mean that the parent company knows how much it will cost for the wholly owned to operate the new aircraft. In order for the parent company to make an informed decision about who to chose as the winner of the RFP, they need to know who would be the most economically poised; and without a wholly owned submitting their operating bid, the parent company wouldn't be able to make that determination.

Another interesting thing about PSA - or I guess its a question I have...why did the DOT merger application for economic authority list a merger of three certificates into one? The application is not to merge AWA and USAirways; its an application to merge AWA, USAirways, AND PSA. That doesn't make sense, even for a wholly owned. Example....Comair and ASA each have their own DOT economic authority certificates and they are wholly owned by Delta. Like I say...doesn't make sense.

Either way...decisions on which airline to go to are indeed private decisions. The best advice I can give you is to educate yourself on the choices the best you can, then choose the one that makes sense for you, your family, and your situation.
 

JoeMerchant

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ifly4food said:
Don't come to ASA. We have no contract, and management treats us like dirt. Everyone but Mesa makes more than us, and we're about to strike this company out of business.

Every month, half of our new hire class quits. They're going to CoEx and even Eagle. Avoid this dump.
Ifly4food,
I hate to bring some facts to your bitter little tirades, but the current ASA contract is better than the current PSA contract and we don't have jets4jobs. The current ASA contract is also better than the Eagle contract without 400+ mainline flowbacks to contend with.

EDUC8-or,
Listen to both opinions, but throw out the ones from people who have an ax to grind such as our friend ifly4food. As a long time ASA pilot, I think ASA is probably a better choice, but you will never now for sure until you look back at the end of your career.

Joe
 

328dude

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JoeMerchant said:
EDUC8-or,
Listen to both opinions, but throw out the ones from people who have an ax to grind such as our friend ifly4food. As a long time ASA pilot, I think ASA is probably a better choice, but you will never now for sure until you look back at the end of your career.

Joe

First off, your question is pretty open ended. Pilots will often compare the airline they work for as being better then everyone else with a few exceptions. You need to make a decision based upon what fit's better in your life. To commute or not, cost of living, family and what would make the spouse happy. All things to consider first, then make your choice. Don't make a decision based upon what one company has and another does not. Things change rapidly and the future is always unknown in the aviation industry.

You need to pick the one that fits better for your lifestlye. You have to figure your going to be there for a few years,
 
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