PSA offered 900's

[jetfo]

]

All 900's should go to mainline period.

Yet another philosopher!

 

[jetfo]

Agreed, but it's too late for that. Mainline is getting slapped in the face (90 seat jets at PSA with mainline pilots on the street). PSA is getting slapped in the face (fly the 90 seaters for LESS than 70 seaters AND a pay freeze). PDT is getting slapped in the face (more jets for the other W/O who they feel already stabbed them in the back).

EDUC8-or:

You're not educating too clearly! How in the world do interpret the offer to mean flying the 900s for less than the 700s?

And, actually mainline pilots are flying them, although unfortunately not at mainline.

 

[ABITRATOR]

The next step for PSA negotiations will go somewhat like this:

Management will say, "If the PSA pilot group doesn't agree to fly the -900 at current payrates then that is just fine."

Next they'll say, "Due to current economic conditions and the continued rise in the price of oil, we have determined that operating a fleet of 50 seat RJs is no longer economically viable. Starting next month PSA will begin returning CRJ 200s to the lessor."

And lastly, "The CRJ-900 flying is still available for PSA to secure. In order to prevent the furlough of half of our pilot group it is strongly recommended that we bid on this flying at our current rates. Your job security and futures are in your own hands, we know you will do what you think is right and best for the pilot group as a whole."

And that's when they should all say, "so be it , shut the company down." PSA is not going to operate with 14 700s.

 

[ex j-41]

Well JetFO you know where i stand in regards to the low ticket prices and the fact that our salary's are subsidizing the ticket prices. But did you know that if the Cpt and F/O were each given a $5 raise it would work out to $0.11 more for each passenger/hr. 90 seats/$10
The fares would only have to raise ELEVEN cents/hr for us to get a raise. Is this unreasonable?
We are getting taken advantage of and it has to stop.
It will stop with a "NO" vote!

 

[jetfo]

Yes but ALPA represents us. If we all start make posivtive statements, such as turning down such offers, then we just might light the fire under their butts. And if they still fail to take a stand, then we find new representation.

How often have I heard that one, and nothing ever changes!

ALPA represents active mainline pilots, and primarily the senior ones, because that is where the money is!

Things will change when someone convinces the ALPA leadership that it is in their best interest to effect change.

 

[BoilerUP]

But did you know that if the Cpt and F/O were each given a $5 raise it would work out to $0.11 more for each passenger/hr. 90 seats/$10
The fares would only have to raise ELEVEN cents/hr for us to get a raise. Is this unreasonable?
We are getting taken advantage of and it has to stop.
It will stop with a "NO" vote!

Quoted for truth.

 

[EDUC8-or]

EDUC8-or:

You're not educating too clearly! How in the world do interpret the offer to mean flying the 900s for less than the 700s?

And, actually mainline pilots are flying them, although unfortunately not at mainline.

The current blended ratio of 200's/700's will be frozen. (Bring on a 700 and our pay rate ever so slightly increases). That's not going to happen with this deal, thus we would be flying the 900's with a freeze in the blended rate resulting in less money.

Sure, there are furloughed mainline pilots flying them here.

 

[jetfo]

This is exactly where alpa (national) needs to step in and control the situation.

(TSA/G*jets, another I believe and every other whipsaw that's occured) Set a nationwide rate / or cost of operting per aircraft. Whether it's through pay rates, vacation amounts/ rigs / etc etc.....And not allow a carrier to go below that.

If PSA had the safety of knowing that they could turn these aircraft away, without another carrier coming in and agreeing to do it, there wouldn't be any argument as to what to do. But the current situation, where MESA has 900's currently operating on the property, one would fathom and No vote would send these things quicker than you can say it, straight to Mesa or somewhere, and I would put money on it that pilot group wouldn't think too hard on taking on the a/c. Get all the MEC's together and agree to do it for X amount min. and you negate the whipsaw. It is this situation that allows management to come in with a straight face, and give a take it or leave it offer. They know they have 5 other whores, they can go proposition. So we are number two.

Amen!!! ALPA National needs to help all of us out. The main line guys, the J4J's, Furl. guys, and all the regionals and come up with a pay scale and work rules min. fast before this industry is forever changed.

This is the only possible solution folks, Crzi and Landrover are absolutely right! Nothing short of that will stop the whip sawing and the race to the bottom!

 

[ex j-41]

They know they have 5 other whores, they can go proposition. So we are number two.

I guess they should start looking at number 3 huh?

 

[jetfo]

The current blended ratio of 200's/700's will be frozen. (Bring on a 700 and our pay rate ever so slightly increases). That's not going to happen with this deal, thus we would be flying the 900's with a freeze in the blended rate resulting in less money.

Sure, there are furloughed mainline pilots flying them here.

I think that was my main point all along, "the pay rate ever so slightly increases," is all that we are talking about.

PSA, nor any other pilot group, under present circumstances, will achieve substantially higher pay for the 900's.

The reason is that that our 700s rates are just under or even above industry average for flying this size of equipment and even very close to the E190 rates.

Under what rationale would you demand higher rates then?

It would seem like we should command a higher rate to fly more seats that generate more revenue, but we exist in a competitive market and the market ultimately sets the rate.

BoilerUp would argue that they kept the bar high at Air Wisconsin and that PSA should do the same. Well, that would be great if everyone would do that, but they won't. We know for a fact that Mesa is flying the 900s for less than PSA is flying a mix of 200/700s.

Also, keep in mind that the rates that Air Wisconsin is holding the line on are not currently utilized. Their 146's are gone, same at Mesaba. Do you see a pattern here?

It will be interesting to see is what happens when more and more carriers operate 700/900s and E170/175s and what the average rate will be and if any carrier will be able to command a substantial premium for flying them. I doubt it.

As stated before, both Skywest and Comair, both with formerly decent contracts operate 700s at 200 pay rates.

Even the Compass pay scale for the 900s or the E170/175 for 5/10/15 year captains is $68.55/$80.01/$92.78. Current rates at PSA for 5/10/15 year captains is $68.58/$78.94/$89.23.

Where does anyone see much room for improving the pay rates at PSA or anywhere else, when these are the average market rates for that type of equipment? We are not flying A320s here!