PSA MEC says NO to mainline

[InclusiveScope]

(Apr. 30) The Master Executive Council (MEC) Thursday night in a Special Meeting rejected a surprise proposal from the Company that would have staffed the CRJ-700 program with 100% APL pilots.

The MEC Chairman on Wednesday received a written proposal from PSA Airlines which included language that would staff the 70-seat aircraft with Jets-for-Jobs pilots exclusively. The Company also told the Association that it would cancel the CRJ-700 program unless its terms were met by Saturday, May 1.

The proposal came as a surprise to some MEC members because the Association was not involved in active negotiations.

The MEC, after discussion, voted 7-0 to support a motion by Irvin/Nagy that rejected the Company proposal and deadline. The Negotiating Committee was scheduled to notify the Company early this morning.



All -700 training has been cancelled

 

[RUhiring?]

Actually they said no to their own management.

It could be argued, however, that U management put the heat on PSA mgmt to make the proposal.

 

[InclusiveScope]

PSA management was asking for 100% staffing of mainline furloughs because the mainline MEC demanded it. I would blame the mainline MEC for this.

 

[91100 100 set]

are the management pilots timing out?

I guess it's coming down to wire on those 700's. May 1st? Sit on it. US management is famous for bogus deadlines. I was supposed to be a PDT pilot, or in training to be one, by now, at least according to the deadline that was mentioned in the January memo regarding the ALG/PDT merger/asset transfer. Now the earliest I hear is June 6th.

It's a shame to see those planes sitting around costing money and contributing to the fall, but I give credit to the PSA guys (for once) for holding the line on the 50/50 deal.

 

[RUhiring?]

inclusivescope,

I think if you saw the latest mainline proposal, you would see that is no longer required the 100%. This was being negotiated, but has obviously been taken over by mgmnt.

 

[boeingdriver213]

I don't understand why the company is being so insistant about only j4j guys flying the 700s. The PSA pilots are gonna have to fly them sooner or later anyway, especially as the j4j guys leave for MAA or some other airline. The first j4j guys can go to MAA as of September. Will they? I'm sure some if not many of them will. If the PSA guys are not trained, that could slow thing up. Do it now.....

 

[328dude]

It looks like it's not 100% percent on paper, but dealing with this groups senority, they are going about it in a diffrent way.

No matter how you look at it, mainline some sneaky bastards.

 

[surplus1]

Why do you seem surprised? It is ALPA's policy to have all 70-seat jets flown by mainline pilots. They are doing it any way they can. How long is it going to take you people to figure out where this stuff comes from?

Wake up and smell the coffee!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yes Duane Woerth said it years ago to a reporter, I think it was Aviation Week - that the line between mainline and regional operations was 50 seats.

Obviously somebody at ALPA was bargaining to reach the agreement - just because the Express MEC's did not know about it does not mean it was not happening.

 

[nyboilermaker]

Congratulations PSA!!!

We're proud of you guys. Those mainline boys and girls should be happy to have jobs in the first place. 100% of those 70 seaters is ludicrous.

Way to take stand.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

offtopic

off topic:

328Dude,

You didn't go out and "pay" for that 737 type did you? Please say no...

You're better than that!

 

[328dude]

WHY DOES EVERYTHING TURN INTO A PFT DEBATE???????????

 

[OneTuffGuy]

328Dude- you are the main gunner. I like your avtar it is almost as cool as mine.......Anyways I am glad the PSA pilots stood up to the proposal. Where does mainline get off thinking they can staff airplanes at PSA 100%.....Its ok MESA will give in to something and allow more 70 seaters to operate under us airways express. My guess is the MESA guys will be forced to blow furloughed mainline guys while they fly 70 seaters at MESA.....we all know MESA pilots will vote it in but then deny anyone voted yes......

 

[91100 100 set]

on a side note...

Just thought I'd throw this in since the pissing match has begun.

The mere fact that 70 seat airplanes are being operated "outside" of MidAtlantic is a violation of the ALG (and more than likely the PDT) restructuring agreement. Regardless of whatever LOA we are now on (since these LOA's do not acknowledge ALG and PDT's agreements and we are not subject to them since we never got any of the RJ pie), where is the bypass pay for the ALG and PDT pilots?

Chew on that.

 

[328dude]

OK, Im done chewing. LIke you said, NO pie for you, hence no bypass. Now, if the 700's go to PDT or ALG, then you have a point.

 

[boeingdriver213]

Well, if someone doesn't blink soon, I can see Mesa getting the 700s, PSA getting nothing except the possbility of no future jet deliveries, and possible suspension of hiring, or even furloughs. I understand that 2 RJ2 deliveries were cancelled this week....

 

[328dude]

I am only aware of a 701 that was supposed to be picked up Friday was cancelled. Last I heard, the 50 seat delievery's are still on schedule. 10 50 seaters for May.

 

[boeingdriver213]

It would be great to see PSA grow and kick some regional butt. I hope things get worked out soon so we can all move on to the next adventure over the horizon....

 

[91100 100 set]

an inflated sense of entitlement?

328, I would not have responded had you not capitalized the "no" in your response.

Having said that, your comment is hauntingly similar to the attitude that split the 3 wholly owned carriers two years ago when Siegal opened the hatch to the bowels of the industry for us to be lured into. We are all group pilots (despite the facts that the mainline MEC is ignorant of this and management prefers to cultivate the contrary), hence we are all in this together. Don't you agree? I certainly hope so...

 

[328dude]

91: I pulled out the caps since someone tryed to turn this into another PFT debate.

However, I do agree with that all three of us our group pilots and in this together. The future of those airplanes are certainly in question on this property due to some big issues on who get's to fly them. However, I think you and I both seem to know where they will go since all three of us agree on 50/50.

I'm glad the PSA guys did what they did. Would you J4J's guys agree to 100% percent staffing by original PSA pilots?

Didn't think so.

 

[Long-Gonner]

328dude. You must remember that the mainline pilots feel that they "own" all the flying at Group. I guess that means us commuter jockeys should be happy with 20 or so CRJ200s at 50/50.

 

[Swaayze]

It seems that PSA's interests would be better served at this point by allowing 100%. Keep reading and I'll explain, then y'all can gripe! But...I really don't care one way or the other anymore, just an interested bystander at this point.

In reality you'd probably end up with about 25% of the next 60 airplanes' seats filled by J4J. First, the FO list is closed, so all right seats will be PSA/street pilots. More importantly to your cause, I suspect you'll only see another 100 J4J pilots or so come to PSA as Captains. They are within about 400 of the bottom of the APL to fill PSA C/O slots already and I'd estimate only about 150 of those are preferencing PSA. Many people who've preferenced it are passing too. So, principle aside, the smart move may be to agree. But sometimes you gotta stand up for principle - if this is a good time for you guys to do so, go for it!

Hopefully it's all just more BS from what's gotta be the worst management in the business.


Good luck to everyone under the thumb of U Group.

 

[328dude]

Swaazye: FIrst off, were you at now? TUL?

Second. If we would have agreed to that proposal, the 50 seaters would be staffed 50/50 per J4J. We would have agreed to allow the 70 seater to be flown by 100% percent mainline folks. Why would the PSA folks benefit from this. I'm sick of tired of hearing were we are att on the APL list. Nobody knows for sure, and we still face the same scenario.

I think the risk is to great for the orginal PSA pilots.

 

[ChinaClipper]

The post should read....

PSA doesn't give in AGAIN to Management......They have already gone backwords. Geez, MAINLINE ALPA has undercut Mesa for gosh sakes! How come Wholly-owned's type are always complaining about those that give in but don't wanna do the dirty deed themselves? Why not make the buck stop there? Why? Basically becasue its easier to complain while no skin comes of their collective arses, that's why... No recall of MEC types? No Vote the ALPA types out etc? Just whining about Mesa et al and "...my avatar is cool, my shades are cool, I am a pilot and there fore cool, see my cool uniform, I used to work for a cool operation, I fly cool turbo props. I am so cool, come blossom in the sunshine of my coolness...." The only thing missing to top off such "cool" and professional behavior is the use of the word "Dude", as a verb, noun, pro noun and occasional dangling modifier. If One Tuff R ectum would channel some of his hatred toward the managers that orchestrate this BS, in stead of flaping his boyfriend satisfyer, some progress just may be made....Cool, eh?

 

[91100 100 set]

where does the APL stand?

328, another sidebar, it does seem to be a big freaking mystery as to where we are with the APL. I was lamenting this very thing with a coworker a few weeks ago in the PHL crewroom, and a J4J CHQ guy happened to overhear us. So he was kind enough to pull it right up on the USAirways ALPA website for me and print it out. I have been harrasing my own MEC for months about making this information available to the WO'd pilots, as this can and will have major implications if and when MDA becomes available for us. With no luck. The information is out there, but something (political reasons? an oversight?) is preventing us from seeing it. The list is a little hard to follow, as there are several codes which would need to be explained to me, but I am mystified that the WO'd pilots cannot view this information.

 

[boeingdriver213]

The j4j guys are not entirely in the know either. The information we get is only recieved after we get in their faces enough to make them give it to us to shut us up. We are a niusance to mainline and a pain the the WOs. Other than that, life is good.

 

[Swaayze]

First, the APL is not a mystery. My class was just called for May C/O slots and we're less than 500 numbers from the bottom of the APL. 117 pilots junior to me have a PSA C/O preference (as of 3/31) plus 15-20 who are already there as J4J F/Os. I suspect this will yield maybe 50 C/Os, and then they go back up the list offering to those who've bypassed. Depending on what happens in the next couple of weeks this could yield very few or maybe as many as another 100 or so.

If indeed PSA has lost the 70 seaters then I guess it would've been a benefit for you to agree. This (the 100% for 700s) was, after all, the same thing negotiated initially by the mainline side of the fence and wasn't really a surprise (although the quick timeline was pure BS). Both the pilots and management at PSA have known this requirement for quite some time.

I hope it hasn't cost you guys the whole program. I would've told them to pound sand too if I was a PSA rep I'm sure. Personally I think it just went this way so they can blame you for the deliveries being sold to JO, which was the plan all along most likely.

328Dude I'm still in Tulsa. Unemployed since GP stopped scheduled ops in late Jan. I have passed a number of J4J opportunities (reasons too numerous to list) and I will (God willing) be employed as an airline pilot again in a week.

Sincere best of luck to all at U Group, and all of us everywhere for that matter. Doesn't seem to matter who you try to fly for, it's all a crap shoot anymore anyway.

 

[Smoking Man]

For a program that was/is to be axed I guess they should not have delivered another 701. I guess someone did not get the memo.

 

[bogberto]

It is ALPA's policy to have all 70-seat jets flown by mainline pilots. They are doing it any way they can. How long is it going to take you people to figure out where this stuff comes from?

That's exactly what Johnny got all the Freedom-A types to believe. Care to clarify if your statement only applies to U or to every mainline carrier?