protecting my hearing in piston a/c

[tathepilot]

i heard from a friend that you should wear earplugs 'and' a headset when flying piston a/c to protect your hearing later on in life...?

what about 'anr' headsets, are they enough to protect your hearing..?

 

[FlyinFife]

Wearing plugs under your headset is not a bad idea. Anything to cut down on the dull drom of the engines well help in the long run. ANRs do make a huge difference. If anything, they reduce fatigue and soreness caused by wearing heavy, bulky headsets for far too long.

If you don't have the money for ANR, wearing plugs should help, although I don't know how much.

My $0.02

 

[svcta]

okay, I've had this question for years. Now, the ANR headsets work on the "double or nothing" effect of soundwaves with equal frequencies. Consequently there are still sound waves in your ears, you just can't hear them because the peaks of one wave is "cancelled" by the trough of the other(generated by the ANR headset). So do these waves still move your eardrum? If they do then one could assume that there would still be hearing damage. Can anyone shed light on this?

By the way, I always used to wear plugs under my headset in particularly loud piston a/c.

 

[tathepilot]

anyone?

 

[b350capt]

ANR headsets are enough to protect your hearing for most operations. You should be aware that not all ANR headsets are created equal (some work better than others). You should also pay special attention to the FAA's new recomendation on the use of ANR headsets. This of course, is a typical overanalysis by the FAA but something to consider if you are looking to have both headsets AND earplugs.

SUBJECT:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Noise Attenuation Properties of Noise-Canceling Headsets​

[/FONT]

Purpose:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]This InFO alerts operators, directors of operations (DOs), chief pilots, and flight crewmembers who may be using noise-canceling headsets of the potential for misdetection of audible alarms and other environmental sounds.​

[/FONT]

Background:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ordinary (non-noise-canceling) headsets reduce ambient noise levels through a physical means by providing some acoustical quieting. Noise-canceling headsets cancel noise through a combination of physical means and electronic means. While this technology can have many beneficial effects such as providing clearer communications, reduced pilot fatigue, and added comfort, electronic attenuation of important environmental sounds and alarms may occur.​

[/FONT]

Discussion:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Noise-canceling headsets are most effective over a narrow frequency range, but the specific frequencies may vary by make and model. Also, these electronically attenuated frequencies are often proprietary to the manufacturer and may not be publicly available. Therefore, it is difficult to assess any effects the headsets may have on discerning environmental sounds such as:​

1. • Vital communications between flight crewmembers or flight attendants, other than those attainable through interphone operations;
   
2. • Abnormal mechanical noises or abnormal engine sounds;
   
3. • Audible alarms other than those discernible by electronic means;
   
4. • Vibrations or wind noises; or
   
5. • Other aircraft during ground operations.

[/FONT]

Recommended Action:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Operators, DOs, chief pilots, and crewmembers of aircraft should evaluate their use of noise-canceling headsets. The FAA recommends sampling the available manufactured makes and models when performing such evaluations, since performance and attenuation properties vary. Evaluations should be conducted while both on the ground and in flight during normal operating conditions to ascertain if any audible alarms or other environmental sounds, or combinations thereof, can be detected while electronic noise attenuation is on and active. If any audible alarms or environmental sounds cannot be discerned, operators should elect to find other solutions to discern such alarms or sounds, or discontinue the use of noise-canceling headsets.​

[/FONT]

 

[svcta]

I completely agree with the concerns here. I was once flying a super cub low level(what a great job) and I landed far earlier than scheduled because I just heard something different. Not overpowering, but bothersome. One of the exhaust pipes had failed at the flange at the cylinder and was blowing exhaust gas right on to the cowling. At the very least this probably would have caused a valve seat to burn up and potentially ruin a cylinder. Those hearers in your head are important.


Now, any word on the actual hearing protection?

 

[FrozenPilot]

Having worn passive, passive + earplugs, and ANR, my vote is for ANR if you can afford it.

I started out with a passive in training, and it worked well. Then it was flying 4 or more hours a day in a 172 with open portals for cameras, and an exhaust mod that dumped out behind the portals... very loud from a stock 172. Being low on money, adding earplugs helped a lot, much less fatiguing. However, you'll be cleaning out the earwax a lot more often, and its less comfortable. I also upgraded to DC undercut gel earseals and soft headpad to handle long flights.

Once I got the money I went ANR and haven't looked back. Lightspeed 30-3G. Compared it in a pilot shop with some fake engine noise, but those were the only ones I noticed a real difference. They cut out a lot more prop and engine noise over passives, but allow more higher frequency noise in, like wind, voice, etc. Since the highest db noises are from the prop & engine, ANR is ideal for the GA cockpit. You can even hold a conversation w/o an intercom if all are wearing good ANR headsets. Though I can wear my other headset all day w/o adjusting it, the Lightspeed needs a couple minor adjustments during a 4-5 hour flight... but the ANR benefits are worth it. I find ANR protects the best with the least fatigue. There are different levels of ANR protection, so research whats out there. More ANR means less PNR when the batteries fail, but when it works, its awesome.

As for the FAA advisory on attenuation, I dont see how its any different from a passive headset. You still hear everything, its just been tailored for the most damaging frequencies. Some out there have said ANR quiets the engines to a whirr... I dont think so, but it sure takes the bite out of them.

 

[svcta]

I think the point behind the advisory on the ANR is that it will "actively" cancel out aural alerts and droning noises that would otherwise be the only indication of a problem. This is certainly something to consider.

 

[tathepilot]

im aware of how anr headsets make you less fatigue during flying, they are a sure bet.. but im still concerned about the potential damage that could be done to your ear drums.. 'svcta' has the point that im trying to get an answer too. the sound waves are still in your ears, but the anr cancels them out by the matching the modulation, by producing a wave that is directly out of phase with the sound effectively cancelling the noise out. but does this harm your ears..? i believe we need a doctor to help us on this one.

 

[tomcat]

I have never understood the earplugs under the headset thing. Yeah, it blocks out the engine noise, but you have to then turn up the radio volume so you can hear it through the earplugs. Tried it, just felt weird. I love my ANR DC's although they eat the 9Vs. As for the FAA bulletin, I about fell out of my seat when I received it. "Okay, we're not saying to wear them or not to wear them, but make sure you can hear alarms, bells, etc." With ANR, the altitude alerter almost makes me deaf every time it sounds. Anyone know if some event caused this bulletin?

 

[Say Again Over]

I am currently using a new headset that doesn't use active noise reduction, the headset fits around the back of your head, not over the top, it's so comfortable that I leave it on for the entire flight, seems to cancel out more noise than anything else I've tried (Clarity Al#ft), ear pieces fit in your ear canal similar to ear plugs. For those that fly the noisy stuff like the Premier, I would highly recommend it.

 

[unreal]

im aware of how anr headsets make you less fatigue during flying, they are a sure bet.. but im still concerned about the potential damage that could be done to your ear drums.. 'svcta' has the point that im trying to get an answer too. the sound waves are still in your ears, but the anr cancels them out by the matching the modulation, by producing a wave that is directly out of phase with the sound effectively cancelling the noise out. but does this harm your ears..? i believe we need a doctor to help us on this one.

I seem to recall from highschool physics that two waves directly out of phase from each other would basically destroy each other. I could be wrong though; I think I got a C in that class, and it was 7 years ago.

 

[avbug]

Protecting your hearing in piston airplanes...shut off the engine. Silence is golden.

ANR doesn't so much protect your hearing as it makes communication easier. It only does this in a narrow range, too.

You'll suffer more hearing damage from vibration entering your skull via the bones around your ear than what you get in the ear canal...you can think your hearing is protected because you don't notice the sound as much, but you're still suffering hearing damage and loss.

Wearing earplugs is always good idea, it's double protection...but a headset...any headset, is a big improvement over just earplugs. A combination of the two is a very good idea.

ANR contributes to communication, and may enable you to hear things in the cockpit you couldn't hear before, but may also blot out sounds you might want to hear. I experienced a lightening strike or some type of discharge last week that others in the aircraft reported as being very loud, and I didn't hear it.

My helmet doesn't have ANR...others I know had it put in; I'd rather hear the engine. Last summer I had a catastrauphic engine failure and couldn't hear the engine well enough to tell the difference, even without the ANR...no change in vibration, either. The complete lack of aural response was a little disorienting (it wasn't piston, but turbine, but the point is still the same). Eliminating the noise completely isn't always desireable, either.

 

[FrozenPilot]

Wow...
Since I'm not as eloquent as mr avbug...

-ANR protects your hearing, reduces sound by physics (thats how PNR works), and may be better than PNR, depending on the model and your airplane. Think of it more as a PNR headset tailored for a specific situation.

-Earplugs=earwax, sweat, & ear infections. if you dont mind, you have your solution

-ANR noise attenuation could be a concern, but todays headsets don't cut out enough noise to be problematic. If you're like me and play your mp3s while flying, noise attenuation is DEFINATELY a concern.

-I'd hate to be the guy that wears a headset to reduce all sounds to below 85db and still get hearing damage.

-Again, those that say ANR reduces engine noise to a quiet fan or no noise at all... is completely wrong! I've read the reviews, done the research. Its comfortably quiet, just not that quiet. If you fly with props, you should at least try ANR.

 

[Mr Wu]

If sound waves hit your eardrum, your eardrum will vibrate. If your eardrum vibrates, you will hear sound. If your eardrum vibrates twice as fast/hard(?) you will hear a louder sound. The theory of the ANR generated wave (actually a compression and rarefaction) causing more damage than no headset is bovine excrement. An easy way to understand ANR is to think of it as a TR

 

[unreal]

-Again, those that say ANR reduces engine noise to a quiet fan or no noise at all... is completely wrong! I've read the reviews, done the research. Its comfortably quiet, just not that quiet. If you fly with props, you should at least try ANR.

Very true. I tried out a pair of my roommate's Telex ANRs, and all they did was block out the low rumble of the engine, not the whole thing. You can certainly still hear the engine just fine, and actually, it would seem that you can hear the engine better with ANRs, as you can actually hear the true engine sound instead of all that propeller/wind noise. Could be wrong though!

The trouble was when I went back to my old passive DCs the next flight, and flew about 5.5 hours that day. Ack. I'm definitely in the market for some nice ANRs now. Can't swing a pair quite yet, but I may try the earplug idea.

 

[avbug]

If your eardrum vibrates twice as fast/hard(?) you will hear a louder sound.

If your eardrum vibrates twice as fast, you'll hear a different pitch, not necessarily a "louder" sound. Frequency vs. amplitude.

With a bose headset right now, I can't hear the powerplants. I've had that in several aircraft. I can hear switch noises in the cockpit, but not the engine.

 

[icefr8dawg]

With the Bose X I've heard exhausts fall off, spark plugs fly out and wind noise just fine so I wouldn't worry about aircraft noise in pistons. They had trouble working in an SNJ once but the canopy was open.
Jets feel too quiet with the Bose headsets on so we do the telex leightweight deal.

 

[Say Again Over]

Do yourself a favor and search Clarity Aloft, I could never go back to a bulky vice like headset, just my 2 cents.

 

[DrewBlows]

I'll take the Pepsi challenge of engine abnormality with my Bose vs. anyone with no hearing protection. I'll have an advantage because I don't have to filter though the droning engine noise.

I can't hear the engines in the RJ, but the engines are 100' behind me and I can't see them either. I could hear them in the Dornier.