Prospective Rest

[gunfyter]

You are right. The safest place for any airplane is on the ground and unions have been responsible for placing more airplanes on the ground and pilots out of work than any other single entity.

Rest has always been prospective in nature and one phone call does not interupt rest. Unions have nothing to do with that.

You seem to be a little ignorant of the facts.

135 operators sued the FAA after EJA Teamsters FORCED the FAA to enforce prospective rest. http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html Did I mention the FAA won the case?

Still I know of no one that obeys the rule except IBT1108 pilots.

Oh and a phone call does not interrupt rest BUT if you are expected to Answer that phone call -- YOU ARE NOT IN REST!

 

[gunfyter]

Prospective Rest FAA response to EJA pilot

March 14, 1991
Mr. Thomas T. Gasta
Dear Mr. Gasta:
Thank you for your letter of September 13, 1990, regarding "standby and reserve duty." We apologize for the delay in responding to you.

You advise that you work as a pilot for an on-demand Part 135 charter company. Your question deals with the flight and duty time limitations outlined in Part 135. You ask what the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) considers to be duty or "required rest" when dealing with a flight crewmember who is performing a "standby" or "reserve" function for the air carrier.

The facts as we understand them are that at 6:00 a.m. you called the certificate holder to obtain your flight assignments for that day. You were told that as of 6:00 a.m. there were no flights to assign to you, but you were instructed to await immediate flight assignment by remaining at the hotel for contact by the certificate holder or, if not in your room at the hotel, to call the certificate holder every hour without fail to ascertain if a flight assignment materialized. We infer that the purpose of this procedure was to place you in the status of being immediately available for flight assignment if the occasion arose.

Your specific question is whether the period from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Tuesday, in the fact situation described in your letter, qualifies as a rest period under FAR Sec. 135.263(b) and Sec. 135.263(d). We shall discuss rest requirements as applied to standby/reserve principles generally and then answer your specific question.

FAR Sec. 135.263(b) reads:

(b) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.
FAR Sec. 135.263(d) reads:
(d) Each assignment under paragraph (b) of this section must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24 hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment.

The FAA has consistently interpreted duty in FAR Sec. 135.263(b) and other similar regulations to mean either actual work for the air carrier, or present responsibility for work should the occasion arise. In addition, the period of relief from all duty must be prospective and free from all restraint to qualify as rest under that rule. When a flight crewmember is required to hold himself available for immediate assignment to flight duty by standing by the telephone (or via other communicative device, e.g., beeper), it constitutes restraint which precludes counting such time as a required rest period. Thus, under Sec. 135.263(b), an air carrier is prohibited from requiring a flight crewmember to standby the telephone for immediate availability during a required rest period.

The answer to your question is that the period 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Tuesday does not qualify as a rest period required by FAR Sec. 135.263(b) because you were required to standby the telephone and keep yourself available for immediate assignment to flight duty. As such, that period constitutes a present responsibility for work should the occasion arise, and therefore is duty.

We feel constrained to comment that apparently the air carrier did not consider the 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. period as a required rest period because the air carrier assigned you to a required rest period of 10:00 p.m. Tuesday to 8:00 a.m. Wednesday for the 8:00 a.m. Wednesday flight. It was only after the air carrier changed the schedule by assigning you the Miami-Houston and subsequent flight that the air carrier retroactively treated the 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Tuesday period as a required rest period.

We also note that you raise a point on page 2 of your letter regarding the requirement for scheduled operators to relieve a flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours in any 7 consecutive days (FAR Sec. 135.265(d)). At this time, without the specific facts being available to us, all we can say is that you have raised a valid question. If you want to give us the precise facts concerning what was required of the flight crewmember, we will be glad to give you an interpretation.

We trust that we have satisfactorily answered your questions.
This response has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service.

Sincerely,
Donald P. Byrne
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division
cc:AGC-220/200

 

[gunfyter]

I have many more correspondence to/from FAA concerning this above inquiry.

Mr Gasta... EJA Teamster pilot is the man you can thank if you enjoy prospective Rest. Otherwise the FAA would never have enforced it.

He is THE EXPERT on this issue.

People like 19, are simply misinformed on this issue.

Pilots who continually disobey the FAR rest rules are UNSAFE and should be out of a job and their employers put OUT OF BUSINESS... unless they change their ways.

You can enforce the rest rules. The FSDO likely won't. Simply compose a letter such as the one above addressed to the FAA Chief Counsel. Only the FAA Chief Counsel can interpret the FARs... and will educate your local POI and FSDO. Who will then educate your DO.

If you do not get the response you want from the POI .. go to the Chief Counsel.

thats how it works.

 

[B19 Flyer]

People like 19, are simply misinformed on this issue.

Really, is that a fact?

The original simple question that was asked and answered was: Is rest prospective?

My simple answer since my first response is: Yes, it is. You must have the rest prior to entering the assignment.

Next question, does a single phone call interupt rest?
Simple answer, (backed by the legal interp I posted) - No it doesn't.

If the carrier is making you standby and wait for the call, then you are on duty.. of course.

It doesn't take a union to figure that out... but man, can they help to complicate a simple question...

 

[dime line]

You are right. The safest place for any airplane is on the ground and unions have been responsible for placing more airplanes on the ground and pilots out of work than any other single entity.

Rest has always been prospective in nature and one phone call does not interupt rest. Unions have nothing to do with that.

Oh lordy, lordy no he didn't, well here it comes

 

[learflyer]

It's funny. the feds will allow a guy to work consecutive 14/10's FLYING aircraft. But a part 142 instructor cannot give more than 8 hrs GROUND training in a 24 hour period.

 

[gunfyter]

Who would take this bet?

If you and I do a survey of NON_UNION nonscheduled 135 companies.

For every company that obeys the 135 rest rules I pay you $100. For every company that does not -- you pay me $100.

Who do you believe will be richer at the end of the day?

Right now the "gang of theives" are fighting to get the rest rules changed to their advantage within the current 135 ARC.

 

[B19 Flyer]

If you and I do a survey of NON_UNION nonscheduled 135 companies.

For every company that obeys the 135 rest rules I pay you $100. For every company that does not -- you pay me $100.

Who do you believe will be richer at the end of the day?

IBT 1108

 

[gunfyter]

Well then, I guess good things come to those who stand up for what's right....

 

[ITFL]

Next question, does a single phone call interupt rest?
Simple answer, (backed by the legal interp I posted) - No it doesn't.

If the carrier is making you standby and wait for the call, then you are on duty.. of course.

It doesn't take a union to figure that out... but man, can they help to complicate a simple question...

Ya looks like 19 is missing a few important bits of information. The fact is management at FLOPS was telling us we were "expected" to answer our phones after 10 hrs of rest but prior to a duty on time. So you would think that we would in effect be in stby after 10 hrs each night, but oh no, our POI saw if differently. He said that because we were only "expected" not "required to answer a phone, that did not constitute stby.

So now who is making things complicated? In this case the POI was and when the 1108 came on the scene and helped our pilots understand that this ruling from the POI was in-fact B.S. everything changed. First one, than two than hundreds of our pilots stopped answering their phones in rest. Now we can go to bed each night knowing when we will have to fly the next day. No more 3am wake up calls. I think this is a much safer way of doing things and I think the 1108 and it's leadership has every right to take credit for this.