Pro's & con's of a union

[Jeepman]

I was just wondering what the pro's & cons were of having a union. ALPA (for a regional) vs. certifying an in house union? What changes (good & bad) happened after your airline got a union? I am asking because there appears to be a big push to certify an in-house SkyWest union & I am not convinced it's the best thing.

Please don't post anything if your just going to bash SkyWest for not having a union.

 

[Beechnut]

A benefit of having large union support is resources. Say what you will about ALPA National, but ALPA National helped AirWis ALPA with money, lawyers, and other forms of support. This isn't to say that an in house can't do that, only that that ALPA National does. How strong your actual company union is (ALPA or not) depends on the pilots AT the company, NOT the National resource that shares the same name. For example, compare the results of AirWis ALPA with Pinnacle ALPA.

Good Luck!

S.

 

[skypine69]

Jeepman,

Some info for you to consider. At Skywest we are what is known as at will employees. This means that if management wakes up tomorrow and decides that he doesn't like the way you are wearing your tie they can terminate you. Is this likely to happen? NO. It also means that if a hotel clerk or gate agent tells manangement a story about you that is less than flattering they can fire you. Is this likely to happen? It has happened on more than one occasion. Has the pilot got their job back? Generally, yes. Trouble is that pilot has to hire an attourney out of his own pocket and go thru the stress of not knowing of he will be able to pay for it or not. SAPA can and will help as much as they can, however, when you go into a meeting with the chief pilot, the first thing they tell you is that they are not attourneys and they are there to observe. Personally I want someone firmly planted in my corner!
A union will not protect against bad business descions made by management, or descions made by the major partners. A union is there to help protect your ticket and job from mistakes made by management (intentionally or otherwise). The best way to put it is that it is an insurance policy for your ticket. You put in a little every paycheck and if you should ever need the help you recieve the full support of the union. Hopefully you never need the help.
I firmly beleive that had a union been on the property in the past couple of years, some of the discipline actions that have occured against pilots would have either not taken place, or not gone as far as they did.

An emtional issue to be sure! If you have other QQQs please let me know here or by PM.
PS. Spelling not my fault...

 

[skypine69]

Personally I do want ALPA. money talks and bullsh1t walks I always say! However with the recent fighting or perceived fighting among regionals and majors the vast majority of our pilot group is turned off by ALPA. So....the next choice is haveing something rather than nothing. Utah, where Skywest is based is a right to work state, which means the opposite of the way it sounds....basically workers have very few rights with a legal contract in place.

 

[Kingairrick]

ALPA lawsuit

I am interested in finding out what line pilots think about the lawsuit filed by Capt. Ford at Comair. I am writing a paper on the subject for a class at Riddle. I don't want to hijack the thread, but it seems relevant to jeepman's question.

Personally, I think that the (new?) economics of airline management may dictate that regional pilots have different best interests that mainline pilots. That would imply a conflict of interest on the part of ALPA.

Like jeepman, I'm not interested in bashing or argumentative posts, just honest opinion.

Thanks.

 

[skydiverdriver]

You can find out a LOT about what pilots feel about Capt Ford's lawsuit by doing a search on the rjdc on this board. I personally think that ALPA will do the right thing, but it may take some time before they do.

As for the union thing, I have personally flown at airlines that were non-union, and ones that had ALPA. I much prefer having a union, for a number of reasons. I also personally hope Skywest pilots join ALPA so we can start working together on the problems we have in common. Hope this helps you.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Pilots have a duty to belong to a professional organization that represents their interests in Washington. Wonder why we don't have cameras in cockpits? Why FOX News isn't allowed to air CVR tapes on the Bill O'Reilly show? Why employers can't make up nasty lies about your employment history on a background check? Why your company can't force you to work over 16 hours?
You have ALPA (and to a lesser extent the APA) to thank for all this.

Not to mention the insurance policy of having someone fight for your rights when up against an pilot-pushing manager or a violation-happy Fed.

With a few exceptions, unions are absolutely indespensible for airline pilots.

 

[Draginass]

If you're in the airline industry and not unionized, you're crazy.

JetBlue isn't unionized, but it's a new company and the management seems to be trying to treat the employees well enough that they don't feel the need to . . . . . but I predict in a few years they'll feel differently.

 

[Jetsnake]

ALPA for the SJ's as we are called
S)cks.
ALPA for the RJ's as we used to be
called S)cks.

ALPA is, and will continue to be a
punch line for the regional carrier
until all regional's unite together.

Regional meaning RJ's of course.
Those little planes that make money
for the mother ship. And get those
Main Line pilots home from time to
time.

It is fricken amazing how the big brother
is treating the little guy today.

Everyone should do a bit of research,
check into Air Wisconsin Airlines background,
See what the UAL pilot group (ALPA) did back in 1991
when UAL bought out AWAC.

Eveyone seems to think this is a new thing
in which pilots are getting crap from there
Mother Ship.

I went to work for Air Wisconsin for one reason.
Stability.
If the owners make money.
I have a job.
I wish the owners of this privately held company
the best.
I hope they make a ZILLION dollars...

Jetsnake

 

[Publishers]

bad times

Unions tend to be a good thing in good times and a bad thing in bad times. Why????

Because they are effective in negotiating for large groups and taking full benefit during the good times.

On the other hand, during bad times, the very things that they accomplished in the good times tend to come back and bite many of their members. They create a structure that cannot respond to new situations in a timely manner. The problem is that they are trying to establish an industry wide practice and may not be able to address the individual company problems.