PRos and Cons of fractionals

[PGTB]

FOr an airline guy wanting to switch, what are the differences and pros and cons of flying for fractionals (assuming they hire again). Thanks

 

[Airboss]

Some Pros & Cons depending on the pilot:
1) Airline style schedules
2) Fly with different crews weekly
3) you have OFF days
4) You must be customer service oriented
5) You must be willing to go the extra mile for the customer (within legalities)
6) Pay is generally better than the regional airlines
7) Hours are crazier
8) Airlines you sit a lot in a hotel vs Fractionals you sit a lot at a FBO.
9) Airlines you know when you do an overnight that that same airplane will be waiting for you if you operate the am flight.

 

[hammer2]

Airlines are hiring.
Fractional's aren't.

 

[Willy21]

The fractional world is all about change. Everything changes multiple times a day. You are paired up with a crew and a plane and are on call for all of your duty periods for that tour. It could be late night shows, it could be early morning shows, and more often than not it will be a mixture of both on the same tour.

To me the flying is more interesting than the 121 world. You will go to places you have not ever heard of along with all of the airline hot spots. You will be tasked with making more decisions, both operational and customer service, with your crew than in the 121 world. There are many things that you have seen in airline flying and there are a lot you will learn as you go.

It is a different skill set, something anybody can learn if they are willing to, than flying for the airlines. I think that when the legacy 121 airlines start hiring the fractionals will see the departure of some of their pilots and hiring will resume. If you are looking at the larger fractionals don't expect a quick upgrade. I have been at NetJets just under 5 years, 40 from the bottom and it will be at least another 10 years for me to see the left seat of a small cabin airplane.

Best of luck to you.

 

[rajflyboy]

Some Pros & Cons depending on the pilot:
1) Airline style schedules
2) Fly with different crews weekly
3) you have OFF days
4) You must be customer service oriented
5) You must be willing to go the extra mile for the customer (within legalities)
6) Pay is generally better than the regional airlines
7) Hours are crazier
8) Airlines you sit a lot in a hotel vs Fractionals you sit a lot at a FBO.
9) Airlines you know when you do an overnight that that same airplane will be waiting for you if you operate the am flight.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Not true

 

[screwed]

Very random schedule.
Detachment from company while off, Phone does not ring.
Many destinations
Never know where you will end up
Usually nice and interesting passengers
good equipment
Teterboro
Pay is not bad
week on week off is okay, some people hate it
clean/stock your airplane and check dates of stock
Load pax bags...with a smile every time
Change LAV, can be nasty on some airplanes

you can decide which of those are pro/con

I think there will be hiring soon at CA, not sure about the others. I think there will be a lot of attrition when airlines start to hire. Also, each company varies quite a bit with benefits and pay. NJ being the best but probably wont be hiring for a long time

 

[glasspilot]

Here's a comparison to Airline vs. Fractional...

I spent 5 years at ACA, a regional airline flying United Express and Delta Connection colors. They left United and Delta in 2004'ish and became Independence Air and promptly went out of business 14 months later.

Anyway, after Independence Air went under I left to fly for Avantair. My logbook program has a feature where it plots all of your flights on a map. (I use LogBook Pro and Route Browser is the mapping software.)

Take a look at the difference in flying. The first represents 5 years at ACA / Independence Air and the second represents only 3 years flying fractional at Avantair. The difference is striking.


5 years at a Regional (ACA / Independence Air) map
Based in KORD and KIAD for the entire time.

3 years at a Fractional (Avantair) map
Based in KMCO (my home) for the entire time.






After you view the pics, remember the first was 5+ years and the second was only 3! That's the difference if you ask me...

 

[chasmo]

Glass, You're right, that says it all. That is a fascinating comparison.
Thanks for posting the map

 

[wacoflyr]

Avantair is hiring, has been for about 6 months. However, the numbers are small. I like it here. Worth a shot if you are customer oriented and meet our mins. Be sure to get a rec if you ever flew with anybody here.

 

[OPECJet]

If you are looking at the larger fractionals don't expect a quick upgrade. I have been at NetJets just under 5 years, 40 from the bottom and it will be at least another 10 years for me to see the left seat of a small cabin airplane.

Best of luck to you.

If you were 40 from the bottom you'd be furloughed.

 

[imacdog]

I think that's 40 from the new bottom.

 

[OPECJet]

I think that's 40 from the new bottom.

I figured. The smilies don't work on the work computer.

 

[fischman]

FOr an airline guy wanting to switch, what are the differences and pros and cons of flying for fractionals (assuming they hire again). Thanks

Pros:

Home more.
Paid more.
Nice planes.
Nice passengers (they actually ENJOY flying on our fleet).
FBO wait instead of terminal or crew room. (recliners satellite tv, cookies, popcorn, coffee).
Don't get bored of seeing the same airports over and over again.
Don't want to clean the plane or change the lav? Tip someone else to do it.

Cons:
Don't get to eat at the food court in the terminal.
Don't get to be massaged and harassed by TSA daily.
Don't get to have baggage handlers destroy my gear. I really miss having an excuse to buy a new bag every year.

You will learn how bad the airlines suck, and will eventually pity the pilots when you see them walking in the terminal.

 

[BentOver]

You will learn how bad the airlines suck, and will eventually pity the pilots when you see them walking in the terminal.

I've done both Netjets and 5 years at a "better" regional....Some people would not want to do fractional flying...Therefore the pity is not needed. Many, many pilots like the airlines and wouldn't have it any other way.....

Plus the airline guys have a much better schedule... I waited a long time before applying to Netjets purely because of the lack of schedule modifications month to month.. I enjoyed being able to take every tuesday off for poker night, or every thursday off for softball/flag football....Something that we couldn't do at Netjets.

But for overall QOL, Netjets (fractionals) are better in more categories.

 

[airjackson]

Pros:

Home more.
Paid more.
Nice planes.
Nice passengers (they actually ENJOY flying on our fleet).
FBO wait instead of terminal or crew room. (recliners satellite tv, cookies, popcorn, coffee).
Don't get bored of seeing the same airports over and over again.
Don't want to clean the plane or change the lav? Tip someone else to do it.

Cons:
Don't get to eat at the food court in the terminal.
Don't get to be massaged and harassed by TSA daily.
Don't get to have baggage handlers destroy my gear. I really miss having an excuse to buy a new bag every year.

You will learn how bad the airlines suck, and will eventually pity the pilots when you see them walking in the terminal.

I've done all three now. Regional, Fractional, Major.
I'm off the same amount of days.
I get paid more.
I fly a very nice plane (and don't need a shoe-horn to get into my seat)
Most of our pax are nice, and appreciative.
I don't wait anywhere, whether it be an FBO or terminal. I show up 45 minutes prior to departure. But since you asked, my crewroom is nicer than most FBOs and has all the above mentioned amenities.
I fly into plenty of different airports and have never been bored.
I haven't been massaged by TSA since I last flew with the frac. And I don't have to pack little bottles of toothpaste.
Baggage handlers never touch my bag. I secure it myself in the cockpit with me.
No pity needed here, I'm pretty happy.

I believe we fly(flew) for the same frac. There are many great things about the frac world. You might have touched on some but instead, came across as having a rather large chip on your shoulder.

Cheers.

 

[fischman]

Of course I did. I'm awesome.

 

[Helmsalee]

Keep in mind that there is a vast difference between regionals and majors even though both are airlines.
Helm

 

[jonjuan]

Keep in mind that there is a vast difference between regionals and majors even though both are airlines.
Helm

Dude, please put a space somewhere between all your starfighter time.

 

[FLYLOW22]

You get to fly with Fischman. Pro or Con? Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[fischman]

You get to fly with Fischman. Pro or Con? Talk amongst yourselves.

Whatever!!!

 

[fischman]

Keep in mind that there is a vast difference between regionals and majors even though both are airlines.
Helm

Ha!

Bad management.
Crappy hotels.
Bad diet.
Bad pay.
Commute on your own time.
Old worn out airframes.

Yeah. Vast differences.

 

[BentOver]

Ha!

Bad management. You still do work at Netjets, correct? I wouldn't be tooting my horn these days!!
Bad pay. Before '05 and IBB '07 I wouldn't have gone to NJA to work so many days for such low pay.....

Old worn out airframes. again, we're talking about the same Netjets right? The one who's main problem is trying to sell shares in "old worn out airframes that are past their intended life cycle."

Yeah. Vast differences.

Pot meet kettle

 

[jonjuan]

Ha!

Bad management.
Crappy hotels.
Bad diet.
Bad pay.
Commute on your own time.
Old worn out airframes.

Yeah. Vast differences.

LOL- we're talking about the airlines again, right?

 

[Willy21]

I think it would be safe to say that someone that was hired prior to June of 2005 would have a drastically different opinion of life at NetJets vs life at an airline.

 

[fischman]

Pot meet kettle

8000 hour airframe vs 30,000 hour airframe. You tell me.

I have no comment about our current management team.

This isn't before '05 or '07. This is 2011!!! I would rather be at NetJets now (with out 8000 hour airframes and current management than ANY regional, and 99.9% of LCC's or majors).

 

[BentOver]

8000 hour airframe vs 30,000 hour airframe. You tell me. Airline management doesn't have to sell shares of a 30,000 airframe.

I have no comment about our current management team. I can comment, they suck, and are holding another 300 pilots (12% of the group) hostage. Plus giving out nothing but conflicting information so nobody can plan for the future. Hell, even 10 year guys have said they're resumes are out TO THE AIRINES....

This isn't before '05 or '07. This is 2011!!! I would rather be at NetJets now (with out 8000 hour airframes and current management than ANY regional, and 99.9% of LCC's or majors).

It is 2011, NJA is in terrible shape, and people are contemplating jumping ship, not just SIC's but PIC's also. Where are they considering? JB, SWA, Delta (whenever they all start hiring)

Don't get me wrong, I liked NJA, but don't for one second think that those major airline guys are going "gee whiz I wish I was at Netjets"...

By saying you pity them, it comes off extremely arrogant. Same with all those years of tooting our horns over how much better NJA was than the other fractionals and corporate operators....Well now when there was a furlough guess who couldn't land jobs...NJA'ers...Why? Possibly supply and demand, but I have a feeling it also had something to do with how arrogant many NJA'ers come across on boards like these. People in hiring positions also read these things and NJA doesn't always give off the best impression when it comes to being arrogant.

 

[OPECJet]

An 8000 hour Citation is not in the same league as a 30000 hour Boeing.

 

[fischman]

By saying you pity them, it comes off extremely arrogant.

I honestly don't give a crap if it looks arrogant. I've done the airline game. I didn't like it. I pity airline pilots.

 

[fischman]

It is 2011, NJA is in terrible shape, and people are contemplating jumping ship, not just SIC's but PIC's also. Where are they considering? JB, SWA, Delta (whenever they all start hiring)

Hopefully it's the senior guys!

 

[imacdog]

I honestly don't give a crap if it looks arrogant. I've done the airline game. I didn't like it. I pity airline pilots.

There about 495 of us who really wish you (and others) would.