Procedure turn or no procedure turn

[midlifeflyer]

I hope you're not suggesting that after a flying a DME arc, I'm required to complete the PT because one is depicted.

I don't think you are saying that, but it sort of looks like you are??

No. Of course not. I just quoted the "next sentence" that corrected the older one nosehair posted.

DME arcs where a procedure turn is shown are typically depicted as NoPT routes which means, um... No PT.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Avbug - The approach gate is exactly what I was referring to. ATC is not supposed to clear you direct to the FAF,even though I have had controllers attempt to do so.

Midlifer - good, I didn't think you could have meant that, but I wans't sure.

 

[avbug]

The controller isn't supposed to clear you to the FAF for the approach (but can, for routing, or as you stated, as an IAF pending course reversal)...but it does happen. I've had it before. If I can arrive on the vector to the FAF aligned, stable, configured...I don't know that I would suggest a course reversal is required. I would probably go ahead and fly the approach from there, if consistant with the proceedure as charted.

However, if I'm high, fast, not configured, etc...then the course reversal is still a necessary maneuver...even though I'm aligned. Sometimes course reversal is taken to mean only that the aircraft must change course to get aligned, and this isn't always the case. Course reversal in this case may be necessary because the airplane isn't prepared to continue straight in on the approach. I suppose the point there is that course reversal may be necessitated by more than direction relative to the inbound course, or final approach segment.

 

[pgcfii2002]

I believe you DON'T do a PT if......

1) It says NO PT on the plate
2) There is a holding pattern in lieu of a PT
3) You are radar vectored
4) You are flying a DME arc

 

[100LL... Again!]

The controller isn't supposed to clear you to the FAF for the approach (but can, for routing, or as you stated, as an IAF pending course reversal)...but it does happen. I've had it before. If I can arrive on the vector to the FAF aligned, stable, configured...I don't know that I would suggest a course reversal is required. I would probably go ahead and fly the approach from there, if consistant with the proceedure as charted.

If not in radar contact, I would suggest that it is required in a strict legal sense. That has been address by the legal interp. If the FAA won't let you even join an arc other than at the endpoint (non-radar), then I really don't think that they allow direct to the FAF and then straight in.

That said, no one is ever going to know if you did it. i'm sure a lot of pilots do, and as long as you are stabilized at the right altitude and aligned pretty close, then I see it as a simple red tape issue.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

I would like to revive this topic just to be certain of one thing:

In this topic they address the SHARPT method for determining if a procedure turn is necessary. http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=30358

Just want to be clear about the "S"

"S" Straight In - cleared by ATC to execute the approach straight in off the IAF that also happens to be on the final approach course before the FAF... or IAF and FAF are the same fix. (assuming not in non-radar)

This being different from what appears to be a common misconception that you can execute it straight in on your without ATC authorization or a NOPT if you feel you do not "require a course reversal"

Do I have all this straight?

 

[midlifeflyer]

"S" Straight In - cleared by ATC to execute the approach straight in off the IAF that also happens to be on the final approach course before the FAF... or IAF and FAF are the same fix. (assuming not in non-radar)

This being different from what appears to be a common misconception that you can execute it straight in on your without ATC authorization or a NOPT if you feel you do not "require a course reversal"

Do I have all this straight?

Yep. So long as you mean "cleared by ATC" in the cases on both sides of the "... "