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Pro Standards and the Psycho Captain

Jet_Driver

"There I was...."
Joined
May 5, 2005
Posts
126
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enough
Okay, let's get this thing settled. It seems a lot of you don't know how this system works. Let me school you.

You get assigned to fly with a psycho Captain (Like H.P. at Eagle... see my previous thread concerning this guy), you don't realize what you've gotten into until you're off the gate or climbing out of FL240. In the back of your mind, you're thinking,"I just want to get along with this guy. It is only one turn, or maybe just one sequence." You've just reverted to one of the barriers to effective learning (see the FOI, remember that?) You have gone into Flight, Resignation and possibly Aggression. As I said before, I flew with an H.P. and by the time our first leg was over, I hoped he would wreck the plane so I wouldn't have to fly with him.(wishing wasn't hard to do considering this guy's airmanship) I have flown 4 trips with this guy, 3 too many. The problem was his lack of people skills, self confidence, airmanship, the list goes on. This creates a hostile work environment. You don't need to put up with that. You might not think it, but these guys are no different than someone who is openly harassing you sexually. Guys like this will become a statistic unless they are yanked into reality.

So, you're on probation, you don't want to lose your first Airline job. You worked for years to get there and you aren't going to let this prick ruin it all for you. You work in an environment that tells you to just get along with this guy or you may risk a bad mark on your record. Bunk!

Professional Standards is there to protect you. Incidentally, PS is also there to protect Captain Prick too. It isn't just two people not getting along, it is a breakdown in CRM, and that is a problem. It is a compromise to safety.

"So, what do I do?" you ask. Finish the turn/trip (or refuse the return leg, if it is bad enough) and part ways as best as you can with Capt. Prick. Then, find the phone number to your local Pro Standards guy and call him immediately. You don't have to give your name if you don't want to. Tell him about your experience. Chances are, you aren't the first one to call. If you are, good for you, you've just helped everyone around you. Usually, they will call and talk with Capt. Prick and discuss his work behavior. If PS gets enough calls, they will talk with the Chief Pilot and Capt. Prick may get called in. In the mean while, you have the right to refuse to fly with Capt. Prick. You may not think so, but you do. Call or go see the CP when you see yourself paired with the guy. You say, I can not fly with this individual because you feel safety is at risk. For a kicker, add that you wouldn't let your family go in a plane this guy was flying. That gets some attention. If the CP questions you about it, you simply tell him that you've talked with Pro Standards about this guy. This will protect you. If your CP is a decent guy he will not have a problem taking you off. I heard two flight attendants refused to fly with H.P. at Eagle, The FA's manager talked to the CP about it, and H.P. was taken off the flight. If a FA can do that, surely an FO on probation can do something.

Drawbacks: Someone has to fly with this guy. Scheduling will call who ever is next on the list until they get someone.

Conclusions: The more of you guys who talk to pro standards the better. Talk amongst yourselves. You are probably not the only one who thinks Capt. Prick is a risk to safety. For the sake of safety do something about it. Eventually, guys like H.P. will disappear if you do what you need to do. Don't be intimidated.
 

pianoman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
525
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5000
2nd that. Pro Standards is there so we don't have to involve the company. Better this guy hears this from a peer than from mgmt. Besides, how would you feel if this guy killed a plane load of pax and you could've said something but didn't?
 

Jet_Driver

"There I was...."
Joined
May 5, 2005
Posts
126
Total Time
enough
dispatcher121 said:
OK What if Captain Pr!ck IS Mr. Professional Standards?

Your idea may appear to have wings, but that doesn't mean it can fly. If this were so, then you call the MEC who Mr. Professional Standards answers to.
 

labbats

Zulu who?
Joined
May 25, 2003
Posts
2,593
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9000
Does pro standards count for probies? We're not allowed union representation/dues for the first year. However, they will stand by you for the carpet dance. I don't know how this applies.
 

English

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
3,374
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1
Yes professional standards is available for probies.

I had an instance like this, fortunately only one time in my career, and it was while I was on probation. I refused to fly any longer with the captain, but I gave the chief pilot a solution he could work with. Professional standards was involved and they helped "deal" with the issue. I was impressed with the way the system worked.
 

Jet_Driver

"There I was...."
Joined
May 5, 2005
Posts
126
Total Time
enough
labbats said:
Does pro standards count for probies?

ABSO-FRICKEN-LUTELY!! You can.

In may case, I waited until after I was off probation to deal with my problem Captain. Bad descison. I found out afterward that I could have saved my self a lot of trouble if I had only gone to pro standards after the first flight with Capt. Pr!ck. When I talked with Pro Standards I made sure he knew I was off probation. He got irritated, but not with me. He expressed his regret for my lack of education of the system. You don't learn these things in training. Its rush through the ground school and sim training and off to IOE and onto the line, but nothing practical you can use for CRM, The Reserve System, Vacancy bids, Vacation, you name it. It can take up to 3 years to figure it all out.

I don't want you young Eagles or anyone to be intimidated and/or misinformed as to your recourse on issues like this. Talk to any of the Captains who you can trust. Most Captains are cool and they will help you figure out the system.
 

blzr

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Sep 6, 2002
Posts
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The guys with senority can usually bid around the bad apples, so the new guys get stuck with them. That's the way it has always been. You can go through pro-standards, but also try a little psychology too. It will serve you well in your career, as you will definately fly with more bad apples in the future. If you realize that anger or agression are getting to you, especially in flight, you have to do something about it right then. Preferably not screaming, yelling, or hitting the guy next to you. Keep your cool and do your job.
 

Global33

Call Idlewild
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Posts
27
Total Time
..'61?
Drawbacks: Someone has to fly with this guy. Scheduling will call who ever is next on the list until they get someone.

...so the most junior, straight off IOE guy/girl gets to fly with Capt. Prick. At least that should get the complaints to stop for a while -- bingo, problem solved as far as management is concerned. Gotta love it!
 

Rez O. Lewshun

Save the Profession
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Jan 19, 2004
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X>X
labbats said:
Does pro standards count for probies? We're not allowed union representation/dues for the first year. However, they will stand by you for the carpet dance. I don't know how this applies.

Probationary pilots have full rights to every section of the contracts except for grieving a termination.

Probationary pilots can file grievences on everything else, most likely the scheduling section. The can have ALPA guys represent them as well, Such has missed trips, excessive sick calls etc...

Get informed, get educated, use your resources....
 

acaTerry

SAPM
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Posts
2,393
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7000+
I'll assume you are a typical, thick-skinned pilot who does not offend easily here.

This type of problem only escalates as it sits idle. Talk to some other FO's and get some backup in your camp if you need. Then go to ProStans. A disconnected crew is an accident waiting to happen...and it has happened over and over again.

Everyone has personality problems, except me of course. But when it becomes a matter of safety b/c even doing a checklist is spiteful, you have a problem and you may die from it. Or someone else may later. If he needs to make a man of himself by imposing his self-importance that way...heck with him, see ProStans.
 
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blzr

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Global33 said:
...so the most junior, straight off IOE guy/girl gets to fly with Capt. Prick. At least that should get the complaints to stop for a while -- bingo, problem solved as far as management is concerned. Gotta love it!

Forewarned is forearmed. Be an adult and stand up for yourself in the cockpit and don't let them intimidate you. Chances are, this guy/gal has always been a jerk and other people know about it too.
 

tjsatter

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Jan 15, 2002
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174
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And your succesful resolution of this problem will be a great answer to a future interview question

tj
 
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