Preboarding Jumpseaters on SWA

[Lear70]

Ummm... WHICH FAA reg states that pre-boarding passengers can't take exit rows?

Please be specific, quoting exact FAR number and exact phrasing.

Reason: I call *cough* bullsh*t. Certainly the FAR prohibits anyone with a medical problem or infants (which is what usually makes up pre-boarding) from taking one of those seats, but not JUST the fact that you pre-boarded. Maybe it's an off-duty FAM or other armed LEO, maybe it's a senior company executive, maybe it's the gate agent's Mother-In-Law, fact is, no FAR prohibits pre-boarders as a general rule from exit row seats.

HOWEVER, it's definitely professional not to sit there unless they happen to be open as you are the LAST person taking your seat, and usually I'm still up chatting with the flight deck crew until long after the majority of passengers are seated, but FAA regulation? NOT.

Company policy? That one I'd believe, and it's a sound one. Reserve the nice seats for the paying pax.

Thanks for the ride, guys & gals! Haven't needed one in a while since you don't service ATL, but someday I'm sure I'll be asking again!

 

[Regul8r]

Don't be a jerk. First of all, you shouldn't preboard if you have a letter boarding pass. Second, the flight attd moved you, because he/she like myself believes a paying customer should have the comfort of the leg room or the exit row. I'm sorry if I am coming off hostile. It's almost like someone expecting free drinks just cause they flash their badge. Please extend the exit row to revenue pax and not be selfish on the free ride.

Northstar,

I understand what you're trying to get across. BUT, when I began jumpseating on SWA, I'd patiently wait until everybody boarded before speaking to the C/O. However, the first two times I tried this, both C/O's (very politely) pulled me aside after landing while deplanning and said we are expected to preboard. One Captain's reasoning was it gives the crew a chance to meet the jumpseater and it gets them the heck out of the way for all the other paxs so there are no departure delays. Hope it gives you a perspective of the flipside of the coin.

 

[FlyBarneyJets]

Ummm... WHICH FAA reg states that pre-boarding passengers can't take exit rows?

Please be specific, quoting exact FAR number and exact phrasing.

Reason: I call *cough* bullsh*t. Certainly the FAR prohibits anyone with a medical problem or infants (which is what usually makes up pre-boarding) from taking one of those seats, but not JUST the fact that you pre-boarded. Maybe it's an off-duty FAM or other armed LEO, maybe it's a senior company executive, maybe it's the gate agent's Mother-In-Law, fact is, no FAR prohibits pre-boarders as a general rule from exit row seats.

Easy there, Lear. Read my post again. I never said that there was an FAR that restricted pre-boarders from sitting in exit rows. I only said that the vast majority of pre-boarders would be prohibited by FARs from sitting in the exit rows in the first place.

PS...see FAR 121.585

 

[Lear70]

The first time I pre-boarded SWA as a "jump seater / non-revenue" one of the SWA pilots who I was talking with, and jumpseating home as well, pulled me aside. "Sit in the latter portion of the a/c, and don't take an emergency exit row seat since we pre-boarded." He mentioned some FAA rule about pre-boards not being allowed to sit in an exit row seat. I appreciated him explaining to me some of nuances of the "rules" so to speak.

Now that said, the simple truth is the rule changed about 12 months ago and is strongly being enforced by management and FAA supervision. Even SWA employees can't preboard and take those seats mainly because of passenger complaints that those prime seats are constantly occupied by preboarding non-rev employees.

Wasn't me who said it was an FAA reg for pre-boarders, it was others. I just wanted to make clear to people like Afterprop and anyone else who reads this that it is NOT a reg, it's a Southwest policy. I don't have a PROBLEM with the policy, just don't want people to confuse the two.

FAR 121.585 doesn't list ANYTHING about pre-boarders, as we already know. It goes on to say that ANY certificate holder may ONLY deny transportation to someone per this section IF they are handicapped and that's the only seat available and no one else will move to accommodate them or if the person in the exit row refuses to comply with the airline's instructions regarding enforcement of this or any other FAR (sub section (m) 1 and 2).

 

[Reebo]

Northstar,

I understand what you're trying to get across. BUT, when I began jumpseating on SWA, I'd patiently wait until everybody boarded before speaking to the C/O. However, the first two times I tried this, both C/O's (very politely) pulled me aside after landing while deplanning and said we are expected to preboard. One Captain's reasoning was it gives the crew a chance to meet the jumpseater and it gets them the heck out of the way for all the other paxs so there are no departure delays. Hope it gives you a perspective of the flipside of the coin.

I agree too, but this is the one area of inconsistency I've seen at WN. For years WN Ops agents allowed jumpseaters to pre-board. Lately it's been a mixed bag. I was told by an Ops agent that a new policy they are enforcing is to try and shorten the "pre-boarding" process. This leaves jumpeaters to board with the group listed on their boarding pass. The only change to this would be if you are actually occupying the jumpseat. Then you will be allowed to pre-board so you don't slow up the boarding process. Also as a jumpseater you should choose a seat in back 3rd of the aircraft.

There are still plenty of Ops agents who will allow you to pre-board, but I've had just as many tell me to board with my group. So now I just wait until the end of the boarding process and pray I'm on a -700 so there will be space for my bag.

Still one of the best airlines to jumpseat on. Always treated well. Thanks WN guys/gals for the ride to work each week!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Thanks for playing . .

And, the winner is:

Yeah northstar, don't be one. Givin us SWA guys a bad name.

Now that said, the simple truth is the rule changed about 12 months ago and is strongly being enforced by management and FAA supervision. Even SWA employees can't preboard and take those seats mainly because of passenger complaints that those prime seats are constantly occupied by preboarding non-rev employees.

We and you are encouraged to take the row just aft or forward of an emergency exit row to help us in the event of an emergency and forgive the inability to take the extra leg room and allow us to make it up to you via preboarding jumpseaters, a rarity in the industry at this point.

Clear, Concise, and Common Sense . . . . these 3 C's make an "A"

 

[Aplus9]

Bottomline....

Some CSA's will let you preboard, some won't. Either way, don't take a an exit row (unless you are last) and try to sit in the back third. I believe one of our "Luvlines" issues from last year mentioned to sit at row 16 and back. The issue delt with company employees non-reving/jumpseating/commuting etc.., on our planes. You guys would have not known about that unless one of our folks would have let you know. They were/are concerned about the perception from our customers. It's all good.

 

[737tanker]

There are still plenty of Ops agents who will allow you to pre-board, but I've had just as many tell me to board with my group. So now I just wait until the end of the boarding process and pray I'm on a -700 so there will be space for my bag.

Most Captains will let the jumpseater store their bag in the cockpit if there is no room in the overheads. BTW if you are an FFDO you are allowed to preboard with the LEOS, that is before anyone else, no matter what you boarding card states.

 

[canyonblue737]

Wasn't me who said it was an FAA reg for pre-boarders, it was others. I just wanted to make clear to people like Afterprop and anyone else who reads this that it is NOT a reg, it's a Southwest policy. I don't have a PROBLEM with the policy, just don't want people to confuse the two.

FAR 121.585 doesn't list ANYTHING about pre-boarders, as we already know. It goes on to say that ANY certificate holder may ONLY deny transportation to someone per this section IF they are handicapped and that's the only seat available and no one else will move to accommodate them or if the person in the exit row refuses to comply with the airline's instructions regarding enforcement of this or any other FAR (sub section (m) 1 and 2).

I said "FAA Supervision" because when SWA changed the rule it went into the manuals and when it goes in the manuals it is enforcable by the FAA and they do enforce it, ON SWA, which has the rule. Notice I didn't say FAR.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I was jumpseating the other day and was preboarded. After taking the exit row seat a/c right( lots of leg room), flight attendant told me I could not sit there since I preboarded. I acknowledged her and took another seat, no problem. Just curious though, I know the briefing card does reiterate what she said but that was the first time I was asked to move in 9 yrs of commuting. Is this just an isolated request or are they enforcing this rule? Seems they would like to have crewmembers in the emergency exit row. Any thoughts?

The general rule is no pre-boards are allowed in exit rows. FAA rules. Could lead to a fine.

Now, since you are able bodied, it really doesn't apply to you personally. FA is probably just trying to make sure she doesn't have to explain this to paying preboards who are told every week to get out of the exit row. Crowd control.


Now even if you are allowed to sit there, give SWA a break. Those seats are highly desired by paying customers. I don't sit in them when I commute and I don't know of any SWA pilot that does. We love to give you a ride. I know you like to preboard. Just choose a seat that is less desired.

Thank you.