pre-buy on ce-500 ?

[want to be xcop]

I am looking for recomindations on service centers, for a pre-buy on a ce-500. I would also like to know what would be a "ball park" price, for that inspection? thanks.

 

[mense]

Call Rick Laulsky at Premeir Air Center Alton Il. Hell tell you everything you need to know. You should get a Citation 2 instead. 1.8-3.0 mil.

 

[JetPilot500]

DO NOT take it to a Citation Service Center!

I repeat, DO NOT take it to a Citation Service Center!

Citation, as most jet service centers, does not give any regard to your money! Also, they don't know all that much about the older CE-500's. If you have a new Excel, under warranty, that is the place to go. However I know of an early model Excel that Wichita screwed up when they were installing an APU....cut the hole to big and ended up replacing most of the tail section! It's tough to find a good facility for jet maintenance that you can trust and not overcharge you. After going from shop to shop for a while, we finally hired our own mechanic, and it was worth its weight in gold...saved gobs of money and the aircraft was very well kept.

What year/model of aircraft are you specifically looking at? I'll try and give you some more advice.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[banned username 2]

After going from shop to shop for a while, WE finally hired our own mechanic, and it was worth its weight in gold...

"WE".... You don't work "THERE" anymore!... 2 weeks ago, yes... but not no mo'!

Now they are "them" are we are "US"!

Comprende'????

 

[RJones]

Shot down...was that a Missle or Guns?

 

[RockyMnt1]

pre-buy on CE-500

I have used a guy by the name of Bill Zink out of Sarasota, Fla on numerous occasions. He ain't cheap, but he is throrough and honest. He is a pilot as well as a mechanic.

PM me if you want contact info.

 

[banned username 2]

Shot down...was that a Missle or Guns?

Inside story, but if you look closely you will notice JetPilot500's avatar sorta resembles what kind of plane??? Don't look like a Citation 500 anymore (his "old" avatar)

 

[JetPilot500]

OUCH! I think that was a missile!

 

[banned username 2]

OUCH! I think that was a missile!

Oh you whimp!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[puddlejumper]

Pre-pre-buy

I wanted to bump this thread up to the top and also get some advice from all you experienced jet operators. The gentleman I have been flying for has been wanting to buy another aircraft for quite some time. We have found a reposessed '75 CE500 LW SP for the right price.

In order to ferry it up, we'd need to make an offer, get lawyers involved and sign a contract. He would rather I go down there and check it out myself and let him know what I think. I've never purchased a plane and have no jet experience. What sort of things should I be looking for? A friend/the broker has seen the plane and claims it's in excellent shape and worth a good $300k more than asking price. I've got pictures and the spec sheet and tend to agree.

The next step in the process would be to make up a purchase agreement, escrow a down-payment, have him demo it and take it to a pre-buy shop if he's happy with the ride.

I'm making airline arrangements now, any advice would be very much appreciated.

-PJ

 

[flywithruss]

A good shop for Citation work is Causey Aviation in Liberty, NC, outside of Greensboro. Family owned operation on a 3800' strip 20 SE of GSO. They run 135 charter with Citations as well as the airport and mx operation and have a good reputation. I'm afraid I don't have a phone number but it might be worth giving them a call.

Best of luck ...

R

 

[JetPilot500]

Bring a Mechanic and your Broker with you! The mechanic should have Citation experience.

Without knowing much about this airplane, it's hard to imagine it for $300k less than its worth....a famous broker line.

How many people would write a check for the amout that you can get it for?

Would your broker buy it if you don't?

With zero time engines and around 7000 hours, it's tough to sell a nice Citation 500 LW SP for much over $1M right now. There are a ton of Citations available for sale right now.

So does this plane have zero time engines with like new paint and interior? Can you get it for $700k?

Did you know that in 2004, all jets will need to have RVSM certification to fly above 29,000'? They are estimating the costs for an older Citation to run about $300k.

If the engines do need an overhaul soon, keep in mind that it can run you around $500k or more depending on the time and condition of the impellers.

A lot of things to consider if you are considering this type of purchase. I hope you don't have too many limitations on the checkbook.

I'm not trying to scare you but airplanes, especially older jets, are not cheap to operate. Someone may tell you it costs $700 per hour to operate a Citation 500SP. That may be true, sometimes. But, when an Air Cycle Machine craps out and you get a bill for $15,000 to replace it, it throws your budget out the window.

Good Luck and feel free to ask more questions. I ran a Citation 500 for a while and might be able to help.

JetPilot500

 

[puddlejumper]

I'm not really looking for valuation advice and this trip is not taking the place of a thorough pre-buy. I just need to get a feel for what I should be looking at as a representative of a potential buyer.

I figure I will be able to get a feel for the maintenance by reviewing the logs. We'll fly it around a bit to ensure everything works. As the pilot, I'm interested in the avionics and handling of the aircraft. It's been set up with Garmin 530/430 and Avidyne radar. The rest is standard King stuff.

The boss would like my thumbs up before drafting an offer, ferrying it up and taking it to a pre-buy.

Could someone maybe summarize the phase inspection program on the 500? 1-5 was done Jan 2000, 1-4 Feb 2002. Very low time engines by Dallas Airmotive. When is the hot section done? Thanks everybody.

-JP

 

[501261]

Could someone maybe summarize the phase inspection program on the 500? 1-5 was done Jan 2000, 1-4 Feb 2002. Very low time engines by Dallas Airmotive. When is the hot section done? Thanks everybody.

Phase Inspections on a Citation (the big ones any way)

Phase B 150 hours @ $4000
Phase 1-4, 300 hours or 24 months@ $30,000
Phase 5, 1200 hours or 36 months @ $100,000
Hot Sections 1800 hours about $80,000 per engine
Overhauls 3500 hours at $200,000 per engine.
RVSM mod- required to go above FL290 Mar 2005- $150,000
TAWS- required with for 6 passenger seats 2005- $80,000

Prebuy should run about $10,000

So basically this airplane you are looking at has a $100,000 Phase 5 coming up in January.

JetPilot500 brings up excellent points, don't go to the Citation Service Center (WestStar in GJT is good, as is Duncan LNC). And like he says the market for early Citations is swamped right now.

Another problem to consider with all older airplanes is parts availability, consider some of the stupid things like the airstair $20,000 ($10,000 for a new airstair, and $10,000 for the SB to put it in), Beacon $7,000!

The airplane should be on CESCOM (Cessna's computerized maintenance tracking system); just look at CESCOM 20 to see what is due. If it's not on CESCOM, beware! If the previous owner couldn’t spend the $2000 annually to keep the CESCOM, that's a pretty good indication he might not have spent money anywhere else! But also beware of the CESCOM, verify that the important inspections have actually been done or are due, CESCOM is only as good as the information entered into it!

Things I would be looking for on the flight, ITT temps at Max Power (shouldn’t be more than 650), pressurization (should get 8.5 psid and hold it with 50%Fan speed), is the AP/FD integrated with the Garmin, TR’s are nice, Freon A/C is a must down south,

Good Luck

 

[puddlejumper]

Thanks for the advice, I'm heading down to take a look first thing in the morning.

-PJ