Prater Must Resign!!

[Flopgut]

So what is your plan to become politically effective?

At this time, I'm watching the NC and offering input that I think is valid. Gauging sentiments, I think this might turn out balanced. That is the most important thing at this moment.

More later.

 

[Flopgut]

While I too believe Prater has to go, the vindictiveness directed his way is misspent. We knew what his personal opinion was before he was elected. If you do a little asking around, you'll realize that the MEC from DAL and UAL put John in office because he promised to change the rule.

Here's the clincher: Unless you work at Northwest Airlines or Express Jet, YOUR MEC wrote ALPA a blank check to change the unions stance.

Maybe, in conjunction with posting here, you should be getting involved with your LEC. ALPA throws it's young under the bus, economic realities of senior members paying more dues and wielding more influence won't change because you're mad. What will make us more powerful is us getting involved in the political process, throwing out our current leadership from the bottom up as we go.

Want a real union? get involved!

LJDRVR

Thanks for a great point here, you're right.

Rez: I'm going to PM what I would like to post here. Look it over first pls.

 

[Vne]

Want a real union? get involved!

Get real. With 11 days off a month ALPA expecting volunteers is like looking for virgins to crew a pirate ship....
We pay enough dues to hire "goons" for the heavy lifting.....
When will National understand pilots can not do it all

National is nothing more then a PAC of political hacks looking to feather their nest....Local volunteers ,bless their hearts are overworked and out lawyered at every turn......ALPA must change its basic structure to survive...I do not think that have the ability to even admit its broken 1930's model is toast


Yes I did get involved.eventually reality sets in.
former LEC-MEC_Committee-volunteer

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Praters additional earnings from this will far exceed an extra $1,000,000 when you consider his outrageous ALPA pay.

What would it take for the ALPA prez pay not to be an issue?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Exact pay as flying the line last year. Positive spaced to functions. No extraordinary benefits.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Exact pay as flying the line last year. Positive spaced to functions. No extraordinary benefits.

Ok.... what is it going to take to make it happen?

 

[atrdriver]

Are you serious? popular vote is the best way? movement by the masses? This is what our foundaing fathers intentionally created when they formed our democratic republic which ALPA is modeled. If it is good for our country then why not for our union...

Hate to break this to you Rez, but this country is not a democratic republic. It is a representative republic. There is a difference.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ok...representative republic... got it... it is what it is... we elect reps to manage the issues.

Do you really think the american public or the alpa membership can be effective in dealing with the day to day issues?

 

[atrdriver]

ok...representative republic... got it... it is what it is... we elect reps to manage the issues.

Do you really think the american public or the alpa membership can be effective in dealing with the day to day issues?

No, not with the day to day issues. But, the ALPA membership, JUST LIKE the American public, is getting fed up with having their elected leaders not do what they were elected to do. I am a big ALPA supporter, but even I can see that there are a lot of upset people out there, and this age 65 thing has made me question my support.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Ok.... what is it going to take to make it happen?

A noose.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No, not with the day to day issues. But, the ALPA membership, JUST LIKE the American public, is getting fed up with having their elected leaders not do what they were elected to do. I am a big ALPA supporter, but even I can see that there are a lot of upset people out there, and this age 65 thing has made me question my support.

We just had an LEC election at my council. 31% particaption...

So if one didn't vote then how can they get fed up? I don't get it...

So, you are saying that the membership/citizenship can negate their responsibilites but demand that the leadership adhere to thiers?

Also, if the mem/citizens don't vote can they really expect thier wants/needs to be addressed?

 

[flygirlqt]

We just had an LEC election at my council. 31% particaption...

So not only are you a failure at convincing people on FI of your ALPA agenda, but at your own airline? Even your own council?

It sounds to me like there is a deeper problem with the memberships trust and faith in the organization than you care to admit.

 

[flygirlqt]

A noose.

Just one? Others could use a good Lynch ing. Know what I mean?

Happy holidays!

 

[pylut]

rez,
your "union" has become a joke.
unfortunately the punchline is more sad/pathetic than funny.

with your tiresome broken record player you are rapidly on your way to becoming another punchline.
I'll bet the voting percentage went down at your local union as you continue to turn people off.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A noose.

A response that quite easily justifies excluding you from the process....

So not only are you a failure at convincing people on FI of your ALPA agenda, but at your own airline? Even your own council?

Agenda? I have yet to discuss an agenda. Only particaption. Something you feel that your are not required to do, yet you feel it is appropriate to complain.

It sounds to me like there is a deeper problem with the memberships trust and faith in the organization than you care to admit.

Of course... I agree. The problem is people like you don't have the ability to do anything about it but complain. That is the extent of your skillset.

I wish it were different. I wish you were smarter so that you can contribute to positive change...

rez,
your "union" has become a joke.
unfortunately the punchline is more sad/pathetic than funny.

Agreed. So is what will become of our careers. I am going down fighting.... you guys are going down as whiners...

with your tiresome broken record player you are rapidly on your way to becoming another punchline.
I'll bet the voting percentage went down at your local union as you continue to turn people off.

Actually the voting percentage at my council is quite consistent with history... even in the good ol days of ALPA that many of you haters love to recall.

In fact I predicted this voter turn out becuase that is they way you apathetic people are: predicatable, whiney and unproductive.


I really wish you'd all change... but it isn't my responsibility to baby sit you and your career.

 

[atrdriver]

We just had an LEC election at my council. 31% particaption...

So if one didn't vote then how can they get fed up? I don't get it...

So, you are saying that the membership/citizenship can negate their responsibilites but demand that the leadership adhere to thiers?

Also, if the mem/citizens don't vote can they really expect thier wants/needs to be addressed?

You know Rez, I give my leaders at the local level a little more wiggle room than I do those at National. Prater is making somewhere around half a million dollars a year to represent my interests (assuming that my interestsare shared by the majority). That's his job, and he is VERY well compensated for it. If he were a volunteer maybe I'd give him a pass on some things, but he's not.
You can say what you want, but the leadership at national makes a lot of money, and they have a responsibility to the membership.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You know Rez, I give my leaders at the local level a little more wiggle room than I do those at National. Prater is making somewhere around half a million dollars a year to represent my interests (assuming that my interestsare shared by the majority). That's his job, and he is VERY well compensated for it. If he were a volunteer maybe I'd give him a pass on some things, but he's not.
You can say what you want, but the leadership at national makes a lot of money, and they have a responsibility to the membership.

Let's be clear... the President is the only one on salary. The other three get what they'd get at thier carriers, plus expenses to live in DC, etc....

The Pres salary is determined and voted on by the BOD. the BOD is comprised of the LEC reps. you know... the ones that are elected by 30% of the pilots. So.. in reality... 70% of ALPA pilots do not care about the Pres salary. And the vocal minority that say anything about the Pres Salary.. probably have other issues, cause when pressed for pragmatic change..they have nothing to offer but immaturity and hate.

Let's put it this way....

for those who think the ALPA Pres salary is too much.... if thier own pay was doubled or tripled, would the ALPA Prez salary be acceptable. Most would say yes....

So, let's work on increasing our pay...

Because if we work to lower the Pres pay and succeed, then after all that effort... we will still have poor pay ourselves... what have we really gained?


I just expect professional air line pilots to be a bit more pragmatic and logical in their thinking...

 

[atrdriver]

Let's be clear... the President is the only one on salary. The other three get what they'd get at thier carriers, plus expenses to live in DC, etc....

The Pres salary is determined and voted on by the BOD. the BOD is comprised of the LEC reps. you know... the ones that are elected by 30% of the pilots. So.. in reality... 70% of ALPA pilots do not care about the Pres salary. And the vocal minority that say anything about the Pres Salary.. probably have other issues, cause when pressed for pragmatic change..they have nothing to offer but immaturity and hate.

Let's put it this way....

for those who think the ALPA Pres salary is too much.... if thier own pay was doubled or tripled, would the ALPA Prez salary be acceptable. Most would say yes....

So, let's work on increasing our pay...

Because if we work to lower the Pres pay and succeed, then after all that effort... we will still have poor pay ourselves... what have we really gained?


I just expect professional air line pilots to be a bit more pragmatic and logical in their thinking...

Apparently you need to re read what I wrote. I did not say that I have a problem with what Prater makes. I said that he is very well compensated for representing my interests. If I pay someone to do a job, I expect that job to be done well. That is what your employer expects of you, is it not fair to hold our association president to the same standard?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Apparently you need to re read what I wrote. I did not say that I have a problem with what Prater makes. I said that he is very well compensated for representing my interests. If I pay someone to do a job, I expect that job to be done well. That is what your employer expects of you, is it not fair to hold our association president to the same standard?

Fair enough... I was responding to others....

Well..... let's define a job well done....

Now, of course many will say that ALPA has done a poor job the last seven years....

If we are critique the leadership then the membership is fair game...

Did a I miss someone addressing this: What responsibilities does the membership have...?

Finally, if ALPA has done a poor job...why? Answer the question from this perspective....

If ALPA has failed the membership's expectations... objectively justify those expectations.....

For example:

ALPA has gutted the profession with the concessionary contracts during the BK era. ALPA should just shut it all down: National Strike.

 

[atrdriver]

Has ALPA failed? I don't think that I said that ALPA has failed. I said that Prater was not following the majority will of his pilots. The majority were against raising the age to 65, yet he supported it. That is not acceptable to me.

The US Air debacle was the fault of their MEC, not national. Age 65 was nationals failure, and thus Prater's failure.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Just one? Others could use a good Lynch ing. Know what I mean?

Happy holidays!

Hey, you too. I don't care though about that whole PC bit, MERRY CHRISTMAS!


As for the LYNCHing mob and Prater, I hear they like to meet in Minni at their favorite bathroom.
Da bote uv um Ohhhhhuuuuuut

 

[samballs]

If I hear one more person say happy holidays I'm gonna hit it. It's xmas or as our P#ssy union puts it winter holidays f#cking homos.

 

[flygirlqt]

REZ. I like your signature line but I must ask. When do you think the last time ALPA National officers actually smelled type IV fluid through the packs?

The only smell they are familiar with is that moldy aroma of cash stuffing their pockets.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

REZ. I like your signature line but I must ask. When do you think the last time ALPA National officers actually smelled type IV fluid through the packs?

The only smell they are familiar with is that moldy aroma of cash stuffing their pockets.

Probably when they were flying globally to address the issues. With about 1 day off a week (and they are probably answering emails and phone calls on that "day off")....

Prater is the only one with a salary...

the other three only get what thier seniority will hold at thier respective carriers... So guys next to them on the senioirty list have about twice the time off...

When you think about it..there is really no incentive to do this kind of work, except ego or a desire to improve the profession. The constant kick in the balls by the very people your trying to help really messes with your psyche...

But you are not into empathy..... you're just looking for another set of nuts to crush...??

Merry Chistmas

 

[PHXFLYR]

Anybody yet pAssed a resolution at an LEC meeting? Or is this just more complaining on a web board?

Sheesh...you guys...always waiting for someone else to take up the banner for you

As a matter of fact,we did. We tabled it at our last LEC meeting.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

ALPA now needs to work with capa, teamsters and all other transportation unions to nullified the RLA and have every transportation union under the NLRA/NRLB as it should be. no more amendable contracts, when it's done, you can walk. Th RLA is unconstitutional a on a deregulated transportation industry and getting rid of it would do wonders ensuring proper contracts and protections to include foreign ownership and cabotage.

It won't even cross their minds .

Unless you bring it to the forefront. How about presenting a resolution at your next LEC meeting and get the ball rolling.It sounds like a great idea. PAC contribution, anyone?


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

What would it take for the ALPA prez pay not to be an issue?

Maybe a little show of empathy. All of the legacy carriers had their contracts gutted, pay significantly reduced, pensions frozen and in some cases eliminated completely. Lots of us,including yours truly,never had any of that to begin with, after 25 years of paying ALPA dues, still don't. I think it would have been a true sign of union solidarity if the ALPA President would have taken a significant cut in salary as a display of soldiarity with his troops out in the field ,especially when you consider all that the rank and file pilots have lost over the years , and ALPA's inability to prevent it from happening.


PHXFLYR

 

[Tejas-Jet]

As a matter of fact,we did. We tabled it at our last LEC meeting.

PHXFLYR

"Tabled it"...so when does it get passed? ...or rejected?

Let us know the outcome....just one LEC so far? How many others?

 

[PHXFLYR]

That's one of 3 reasons why it was tabled. We don't know how many other airline MEC's feel the same that way that we do. To recall the President of ALPA,the ALPA executive board ,which is made up of ALL the MEC's (and should NOT be confused with the Executive Council,which is a different governing body ) must approve the recall measure by a vote of 50 percent plus 1 vote or by majority vote. (Not to sure which. It's been a few months since I last talked to my Capt rep about this topic ) Anyway,at this point, we aren't sure of how the other MEC's feel about going down this road. If Flopgut really want's to get his flying buddy Prater out of there,perhaps he ought to introduce a resolution at his next LEC meeting,calling for his ouster instead of complaining about it ad naseum on this webboard. But I guess like Rez and Occam like to say,that takes too much effort. Anyway ,that's where we are at my airline. 2 LEC's at one airline passed resolutions,currently tabled ,calling for Prater's ouster. Anyone else care to join in ?

PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe a little show of empathy. All of the legacy carriers had their contracts gutted, pay significantly reduced, pensions frozen and in some cases eliminated completely. Lots of us,including yours truly,never had any of that to begin with, after 25 years of paying ALPA dues, still don't. I think it would have been a true sign of union solidarity if the ALPA President would have taken a significant cut in salary as a display of soldiarity with his troops out in the field ,especially when you consider all that the rank and file pilots have lost over the years , and ALPA's inability to prevent it from happening.


PHXFLYR

Fair enough... but what will that accomplish?

In addition, how about some empathy for the President. can it not work both ways?

Does bringing down another justify? IOW, I am won't be happy until you are misrable just like me...

Recall, the ALPA president didn't force the pay cuts over the last seven years. The membership voted on them.

So.... the logic is... "the membership choose to have paycuts and I've stated that (prater) that I'll take the pay package the BOD sets forth, but I should still take a paycut to show union solidarity?"