Power-off Stall Practice

[Savate]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm trying to get all my notes squared away.

Need help with Power-off Stall Practice Procedure
(this is for a C-152):

Please tell me what to add or change.....

Begin:
1) Carb Heat ON
2) Drop RPM (below 17k RPM?)
(Flaps , at 10deg, etc. here?)
3) Pitch for 40kts(?)
4) Stall

Stall Recovery:
1) Nose to horizon; restabilize (straight and level)
2) Throttle to Full (apply RT Rudder!)
3) Carb Heat OFF
(Flaps back to 0deg in increments?)
4) Pitch for Vx (54kts)
5) Resume climb

I'm sure there may be different ways to do this in the practice area, but does this look about right?[/font]



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[Kream926]

get in a flow habit

i do reverse L
1st clearing turn
gas - on
mix - full
carb heat - on
throttle back to slow down
2nd clearing turn
10 degrees throttle 1200
glide 65
pitch up to induce

recovery - pitch down to break stall full full full nose to horizon

remember pitch and power before nose to horizon, you dont want a secondary stall

heres a silly way i remember what power setting for clean or dirty
dirty dozen - like the rap group
when your dirty use 1200 rmp
clean = idle
and dont forgett to establish a glide, or at least thats the was i learned and thats the way i teach my CFI instructor

 

[Fly_Chick]

Remember, the Power Off stall is simulating stalling and recovering while approaching to land. You want the aircraft set up in the manner in which you usually have it set up while landing. usually slow, full flaps, low power setting. The way I teach them is:

1) Pre-manuever checklist (see Kream's comments), pick a point on the horizon as a reference point to maintain heading, or pick a point off the side as your pitch up may preclude you from seeing your point on the horizon.

2) Carb heat On

3) RPM to 1500 (to get you slowed down)

4) maintain back pressure so you do not loose altitude

5) add flaps in increments to 30 degrees

6) once at your final approach speed (I use 65 kts in the C152), power to idle (use rudder to keep coordination)

7) maintain glide at 65 kts for 3 seconds, you will loose a few feet of altitude here

8) imagine the ground is 100 feet below you and you do not want to go any lower (i.e. you are at 2500' agl practicing, and the ground is at an imaginary 2400' agl.)

9) now start pitching up so you do not hit the imaginary ground, your airspeed will drop

10) maintain back pressure to not touch on the ground

11) your pitch will get higher, use rudder to keep coordination

Recover:
12) once you stall, full power and nose on the horizon, remove first 10 degrees of flaps, then start your climb.

13) retract flaps in increments.

The power-off stall recovery portion is the same manuever as the "go-around".

One way I remembered the power settings for power-off and power-on stalls:
- Power-on stall, known as the "clean" stall, no flaps, when you were 12 (1200 rpm) you had clean thoughts
- Power-off stall, known as the "dirty" stall, full flaps, when you were 15 (1500 rpm) you had dirty thoughts

Good luck with your training!

 

[Ralgha]

Sounds like a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good question for your CFI. Why the hell aren't you asking him/her this?

 

[westwind]

Sounds like a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good question for your CFI. Why the hell aren't you asking him/her this?

Jeez, give the guy a break. He's doing a little extra study on his own. You were/are a CFI according to your profile. Were you available for your students questions 24/7? Anyway, he is also looking at how other people set up for the same maneuver and what different ways we might have been taught.

Savate, About the only thing that I can add is to level the wings more with the rudder than with the ailerons. You look to be on the right track. Good luck and enjoy it.

 

[Tinstaafl]

I disagree with the 'level the wings with rudder' advice. The goal is to prevent yaw. If that leaves a wing down it's not a problem. Once unstalled use normal co-ordinated controls to regain wings level flight.

 

[moxiepilot]

Here's the procedure from a 141 I attended about 3 years ago:

Altitude above 1500'
clearing turn
fuel selector on
mixture rich
carb heat on
throttle 1800 rpm
second clearing turn
flaps 30 degrees 10 degrees at a time
throttle 1200 rpm
airspeed establish 60 kias
glide 60 kias level or in 30 degree bank
pitch to induce stall
stall indications - imminenet - first buffetin or loss of control effectiveness
stall indications - full - nose down pitchng, high sink rate
recovery
pitch down
wings level
max power - mixture rich, throttle, full carb heat cold
pitch for Vy
flaps 20
airspeed 55 kias & positive rate
flaps 10
accelerate to Vy (67)
flaps verify up
level off, pitch & trim
establish cruise

just another procedure - hope it helps

 

[deadstick]

Does anybody use the stabilized 3-500 fpm descent at approach speed...just like you are on final? What about the turns (i.e. base-final turn)?

 

[rubberducky]

I disagree with the 'level the wings with rudder' advice. The goal is to prevent yaw. If that leaves a wing down it's not a problem. Once unstalled use normal co-ordinated controls to regain wings level flight.

FAA-S-8081-14A​

​

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1-27
​

B. TASK: POWER-OFF STALLS​

​

​

(ASEL and ASES)

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3, AC 61-67; POH/AFM.
​

Objective.​

​

​

To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to power-off stalls.

2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be completed no

lower than 1,500 feet (460 meters) AGL.

3. Establishes a stabilized descent in the approach or landing

configuration, as specified by the examiner.

4. Transitions smoothly from the approach or landing attitude to a pitch

attitude that will induce a stall.

5. Maintains a specified heading, ±10°, in straight flight; maintains a

specified angle of bank not to exceed 20°, ±10°; in turning flight,

while inducing the stall.

6. Recognizes and recovers promptly after the stall occurs by

simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to

maximum allowable, and leveling the wings to return to a straightand-

level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate

for the airplane.

7. Retracts the flaps to the recommended setting; retracts the landing

gear, if retractable, after a positive rate of climb is established.

8. Accelerates to VX or VY speed before the final flap retraction; returns

to the altitude, heading, and airspeed specified by the examiner.



FAA would like to see this and also you need to remember the ingredients for "baking" a spin, i.e, yawing force. ​

 

[Ralgha]

Jeez, give the guy a break. He's doing a little extra study on his own. You were/are a CFI according to your profile. Were you available for your students questions 24/7? Anyway, he is also looking at how other people set up for the same maneuver and what different ways we might have been taught.

Savate, About the only thing that I can add is to level the wings more with the rudder than with the ailerons. You look to be on the right track. Good luck and enjoy it.

Actually, yeah, I was available 24/7. They all had my phone number and could call me at any time.

The problem with learning how to do a maneuver on an internet board is that our authenticity can not be verified. We could all be a bunch of armchair QBs that think we know what we're doing, but really don't have the first clue (like airliners.net).

 

[Ralgha]

Anyway, here's some fragemented bits from how I taught it.

Airplane system configuration depends on the airplane. Read the POH. The 152 POH recommends that you leave the mixture leaned appropriately for maneuvers such as stalls.

First time I had a student do one, we entered from slow flight, full flaps (30 degrees), power off. Recovery with full power, nose down to the horizon or slightly lower, flaps 20. Pitch back up and stop the descent, or climb if able. Gradually reduce flaps as airspeed increases. Basically what the PTS calls for.

After they got the inital way to do it down, I'd spread out the entries. We would enter stalls without pausing in slow flight, in turns, recover without removing flaps, recover without using power, etc.

The PTS way isn't the only way to recover from a stall, and it shouldn't be the only way you're teaching your students.

 

[Tinstaafl]

6. Recognizes and recovers promptly after the stall occurs by

simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to

maximum allowable , and leveling the wings to return to a straightand-

level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate

for the airplane.

(my emphasis)


...and what it *doesn't* say is to yaw the a/c during the stall to 'raise the wing' as is often taught. Using the rudder to raise a wing during a stall requires a yaw to do it. Yawing during a stall is a spin entry precondition. That the wings must be levelled as part of the whole recovery procedure is not disputed, only the perception that yawing to do it is a correct method.

Note the comma in that paragraph and that part of the sentence that follows it referring to wings level etc: It says that the wings must be levelled to return to S&L flight attitude. It doesn't specify how or exactly when other than to achieve minimal height loss. I maintain that the correct technique is to pitch to fix the high AoA that is the root cause of the stall, adding power as soon as practicable after the pitch is commenced (if power is available). Only after there is no likelyhood of inducing an upgoing wing stall (IAS > Vs & increasing) should the aircraft be rolled to wings level & then pitched to S&L (if pitching is necessary).

Similarly, part of a stall recovery technique can require a pitch reduction which can initially be at an attitude different from that required for S&L flight. A further pitch input is then required to achieve S&L even though this isn't explicitly stated in the PTS. Do you expect a recovery directly to S&L attitude even it's premature? Consider a stall on a downline. S&L attitude is irrelevent until the a/c is at or near a level flight path.

 

[lawfly]

Uh, level the wings more with the rudder? That could make for some interesting results during stall practice...To original poster: if you're going to go kicking the rudder around, make sure you're well out of the stall. We don't want to be reading about you in the accident reports.

 

[BYUFlyr]

Yawing during a stall is a spin entry precondition. That the wings must be levelled as part of the whole recovery procedure is not disputed, only the perception that yawing to do it is a correct method.

I agree with you if you're practicing stalls in a bank; but if you're practicing straight and level stalls and a wing drops (unintentionally) you're already in a spin entry precondition and it will continue to develop until rudder (one of two control surfaces with some effectiveness still in them during a stall) is applied to stop it.

I think any unintentional wing drop should be treated as a potential spin. What's wrong with that?

Just my opinion....

 

[Lead Sled]

Sounds like a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good question for your CFI. Why the hell aren't you asking him/her this?

Ralgha, I agree with you 100%. This is really the type of question that you ought to be asking your CFI, not a bunch of anonymous aviation experts. This forum is a good source of certain types of information, but probably not the best source for other types. If your instructor isn't doing his/her job or if you don't allow them to do it then all of the advice you get here is going to solve the underlying problem. If your instructor is competitent then just ask him. If you're having second thoughts about your CFI then stop your training, find another CFI, then proceed. One thing for certain, being second guessed by a bunch of "experts" on an aviation forum would be enough to irritate almost any quality CFI.

'Sled

 

[Tinstaafl]

BYUFlyr, sorry about my delay replying. Feel free to phone my boss & complain about my work schedule...

Why do you distinguish between a banked stall (& therefore not trying to raise the wing via the secondary effect of rudder), and a stall with a wing drop?

A low wing in a stall is not necessarily a precondition to a spin whether from an AoB or from a wing drop. Yaw whilst stalled is - hence the goal is to prevent yaw by using rudder as required and not to induce yaw as a means to raise the wing.

As long as yaw can be prevented using up to full rudder input then a spin is not an issue. If yaw can't be controlled then it's time to consider using spin recovery control inputs rather than 'plain old' stall recovery inputs.