Potomac Air & Jets for Jobs

[becket]

Except this time it isn't "taking" anything from anybody. Potomac Air will be a completely stand alone self sufficient airline. The pilots will be 100% staffed with furloughed US Airways pilots. Furthermore, US Airways has agreed to automatically acknowledge that the Potomac pilots are represented by ALPA. They are not a non union carrier this time.
This is not an Alter-Ego airline or any other BS. The other wholly owned pilots have been screaming that the rj's should go to the wholly owned carriers. Potomac Air will be and has always been a wholly owned carrier. Problem solved. Nobody has to get upset over jets for jobs and the furloughed mainline pilot, the only pilot that should benefit from relaxing our scope, will have a job. Everybody is happy...Right? Sure.

 

[BoredToDeath]

Becket wrote: the furloughed mainline pilot, the only pilot that should benefit from relaxing our scope, will have a job. Everybody is happy...

Ya gotta love the I got Mine attitude. A scope clause restricting RJ flying to 70 aircraft is what has made this company #6. Comair has over 100 RJs and thats just one of Deltas connection carriers. Someone please post the rest of the RJ stats so Becket can see how the Mainline pilots have caused our customers to fly elsewhere on jets.

 

[Beavis]

Beckett...your attitude shows what a complete a$$ you are. The Usairways mainline pilots and MEC has been shortsighted for so long, that catching up may never happen. Why, because "we got scope". Like a bunch of babies! You would never buy into a flow-through, which would not only benefit express pilots, but would have benefitted the mainline pilots in a circumstance like this. But now, you guys will agree to flow anywhere that will take you. Lets start a flow-back now, because it benefits us! What is that? Now express/Rj's are good enough for you, even though thay were so far beneath you all this time. Pretty desparate, arent we? As far as POT, you do not have a clue. By defending the formation of POT originally, you go against everything unions stand for and have fought for! What a jerk. The PDT pilots agreed to allow the initial formation of POT without a fight - which was a legitimate alter-ego, because we were led to believe that this would facilitate the merger with United, which would ultimately benefit our airline. We were also told if the merger failed, they would be shut down immediately, since they were formed to have DC Air up and running day one, which is what the feds wanted to see concerning a USAirways/United monopoly in DC. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN! U kept POT alive, using lower paid NON UNION employees to fly former PDT aircraft. This personally affected me, and my putting dinner on the table. My quality of life suffered, and where was the support of my mainline ALPA brothers??? Nowhere to be found. And now I see why. You guys didnt understand, nor give a crap. Well, now POT will be formed differently, ok. So enjoy your RJ, I hope you enjoy the flavor of shoe leather, since your all eating your words now. I just hope your egos can adjust!

 

[WSurf]

I fly for PDT and hope that this company makes it through this tough time. But it's amazing that you have mainline pilots that feel we are taking there flying. (3 Wo's are the same company as you) We at Piedmont don't want and have never wanted to take mainline flying, what we have wanted is to Replace 15 year old Props which the public hates with RJ's. We have never ever lost money at PDT, but mainline management have sat back and watched the Mainline Labor Unions run the Cash Registers.(Full pay till the last day: is the mainline motto) Well boys enjoy the Koolaid because I think this Cooler is almost empty and you are one the biggest resons. Let's hope its not to late for all of us!!!

 

[Vrefus]

If you haven't seen it or felt it yet, the wholly owned subs. of USAir are treated like red-headed step children. USAir will eat their young and spit them out.

 

[flybywire]

Mainline has 1073 pilots on furlough how many do the wo's have? Since these jets seen to be such a problem for you guys and all you want to do is bash mainline pilots, like WE have a say in anything. Call Dave tell him your not interested in flying the jets so the right people can make sure you get to keep flying the props!!! I came up through the commuters feeling like I wasn't respected but ya know what? Respect is earned, and blocking radio transmissions, and name calling isn't the way to get it. I will be sure to pass on these posting to crystal city, maybe they will put the jets at mesa but I guess that will be the mainline pilots fault again won't it?

 

[Beavis]

Exactly right....it will be the mainline pilots fault, because once again it will be due to the greed of the mainline MEC. So enjoy your new careers at Mesa and TSA. The schedules, pay and work rules are outstanding! When you guys finally step up and fight to keep all the flying within the company, maybe we will get some respect for you.

 

[BoredToDeath]

Flybywire,

Why do you say that the WO don't wanna to fly these jets? There is not one WO pilot on this thread that said that. We are saying that we want our turbo-props replaced for jets. The WOs together may have 150 aircraft with pretty much enough people to fly them so your not really creating any more pilot jobs, just replacing old planes for newer ones to remain in the game against other carriers.

And to some others that say U is giving away mainline flying to the express airlines, I did'nt know that we were doing PIT - FLL, WOW thats news to me. I guess the mainline guys would be happy flying an Airbus from PHL to DCA all day. We are NOT taking your flying. PSA has been going to the same airports it did when I came here a year ago. If anything we have lost group flying to contract airlines with RJs.

The truth of the matter is that before 9/11 the Mainline MEC said that any additional RJs would have to be flown at Mainline. Fine, but now whats happened? Now that it looks like Crystal City is ready to buy RJs why then the whole startup of POT? Why not go with the original plan and put them at Mainline where the MEC originally wanted them. The MEC is acting like management instead of fighting for its pilot group, it looks like their trying to shut some Junior pilots up and just throw them at Express. And quess what, thats probably where your gonna stay, cause last time I look at the LOA it didn't have to much to say on these furloughees coming back to Mainline.

The WO are trying to get the Mainline to keep group flying within the US Airways Group; ie: Mainline, PDT, ALG, and PSA.
Your MEC should be fighting for its pilots to come back to Mainline not trying to find them Express jobs.

We are simply asking to be able to feed Mainline flights utilizing the best aircraft possible to increase Group Profits, Destinations, Equipment, and Jobs.

 

[JetProp]

>Mainline has 1073 pilots on furlough how many do the wo's have?
None so far but we have cancelled new hire classes and upgrades.

>Since these jets seen to be such a problem for you guys and all you want to do is bash mainline pilots, like WE have a say in anything.
The jets are not the problem since we do not fly any. The mainline MEC was instrumental in scoping the WO's out of jets and sending them to MESA, Et al.

>Call Dave tell him your not interested in flying the jets so the right people can make sure you get to keep flying the props!!!
Are you referring to PDT's CP? Who are the "right people"?

>I came up through the commuters feeling like I wasn't respected but ya know what?
What tough guy? You sure as heck don't have my respect.

>Respect is earned, and blocking radio transmissions, and name calling isn't the way to get it.
Who's blocking radio xmissions and calling names? Give specific examples, please.

>I will be sure to pass on these posting to crystal city, maybe they will put the jets at mesa but I guess that will be the mainline pilots fault again won't it?
When you talk to crystal city, please be sure and have them pull up performance data for U Express. Then they can accurately do a comparison/contrast between Wo/Mesa and see who has the best on time and completion performance.
C-ya



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[Beavis]

RIGHT ON JETPROP AND BOREDTODEATH!

 

[Vinman]

Flybywire,

I and everybody else out here doesn't want to see the number you put up here (1073), as does nobody else who sits in a cockpit anywhere. Here is what the objections are though.

#1 There is no flow through agreement to mainline. Simply stated, why should there in essence be a flowback agreement?

#2 If you do get jobs at any Express carrier (whether WO or Contract) that get jets, why do you;

a. Get CA pay regardless of seat; &
b. Don't have to surrender seniority and recall rights at your
other job? (ie. I just started at a company where I was
required to sign a letter giving up seniority at any
previous job and it was then sent by my new employer to
my old employer. This should apply to mainliners as
well.)

#3 When (hopefully not if) you get recalled, will there be anything that will require you to fulfill a certain length of stay at the Express carrier since they just had to pay for you to be trained in essentially their airplane (WO and Contract carriers have separate accounting books to keep track of from mainline).

#4 Why don't you get the jets at Mainline? Why do they have to go to Express carriers? If they are really flying your routes (ie routes that mainline had previously flown, but due to circumstances, such as 9/11, loads have not been high enough for an A320), what is stopping them from being started at USAirways?

#5 Passengers are wanting RJ's period. We all know how ignorant paxs can be, but they think because it is a jet, it is safer. The obvious benefit is that it is quieter as well. There are markets that still need turboprop service, simply because jets can't operate into or wouldn't be economical enough to operate into certain cities. Passengers are increasingly driving to where they can get jet service though. With the proliferation of carriers flying out of the cheaper, out of the way airports, passengers have more options today than they did 5 years ago. They are now choosing the jet!

If we, as a group (mainline and express), don't play some pretty quick catch-up, we may all be out of a job. As much as you are trying to save your job, we are only trying to save our contract integrity. I can't walk over to USAirways and say that I am part of you and so I will dictate what you do because you have a contract. We only ask the same.

 

[JetProp]

>Except this time it isn't "taking" anything from anybody.
POT has a history of "taking" from the WO's. We (PDT) had payroll problems, upgrade slowed down, and many were bumped down in domicile as a result of POT. ALG's acceptance of 100's was delayed because of POT.

>Potomac Air will be a completely stand alone self sufficient airline.
It wasn't before. POT siphoned off PDT assets and personnel at the expense of existing WO personnel.

>The pilots will be 100% staffed with furloughed US Airways pilots.
Why are you willing to accept a "B" scale? What other airline is starting a special WO for furloughed pilots? CAL, DAL, UAL, AA, TWAA, and NWA sure as heck aren't staring a special airline within an airline for furloughees.

> Furthermore, US Airways has agreed to automatically acknowledge that the Potomac pilots are represented by ALPA.
They are not a non union carrier this time.
That's to help get around the WO's lawsuit and CBA. How can ALPA say Freedom Air is an Alter Ego, but whole-heartedly endorse POT?

>This is not an Alter-Ego airline or any other BS.
Yes it is. It's total BS.

>The other wholly owned pilots have been screaming that the rj's should go to the wholly owned carriers.
Rightfully so. The RJ's should have gone to the Wo's from day one.

>Potomac Air will be and has always been a wholly owned carrier.
POT does not exsist, except on paper. In fact one of PDT's best 200 series AC is currently mothballed in the JAX Mx hangar to keep POT alive. If U is so hard up for cash, how can they afford to have a multi-million dollar-hard asset in storage?

>Problem solved.
Negative, problem still has a long way to go before resolve is reached.
>
Nobody has to get upset over jets for jobs and the furloughed mainline pilot, the only pilot that should benefit from relaxing our scope, will have a job.
What? The only pilot? You mean only mainline pilots will have jobs?
>
Everybody is happy...Right? Sure.
We could be. Stop treating us like we are "beneath" you.
Later

 

[BoredToDeath]

Very nice posts Jetprop. And to everyone that has posted on this subject, Mainline and WO alike, I think that its a good sign that we are voiceing our opinions, it shows that there may be hope in coming to an agreement that benifits both groups. As long as we can look past our own needs and look at eachothers, we may be able to find a solution right here! Think of how much money that would save our unions in negotiating this at the local strip club.


So I'll just start with just one idea that might help in getting US Airways to get back on track, and everyone else join in and come up with one good "unselfish" idea. First if we take a step back and look at US Airways from an investers point of view, this would not be a wise investment. U is leveraged to the hilt, and it appears that the management here is making FIVE Times the salaries of DAL, UAL, CO, and some others. So any concessions need to first come from above before anything else.

Anyone else agree or disagree please chim in and we'll just call this a simple starting point for a basic plan to keep this airline flying.

 

[FR8mastr]

flybywire, Yes if the RJ's go to Mesa it will be the mainline MEC's fault. Your scope language has the power to dictate how many and where the RJ's go!!!!!!! If it didnt POT would not even be an issue.

 

[WSurf]

I would say that only 50% of the mainline pilots even know that there are 3 WO's. Everytime I jumpseat, "So who do you fly for?", my response "Piedmont Airlines!" (Like it's cool to be a WO) There Repsone, "So How do you like those RJ's we got for ya"!!!! GIVE ME A BREAK.