Possible Litigation on PSA property for Left Seats.

[ALGFLYR]

No one went because there was no reason to. Why leave PSA as a Jet captain to go be a jet FO?

But there were probably some FO's that could have come over.

We chose to bypass MDA and accept a mainline position when one was offered. Look at the usairways-express.com website. My preference says mainline only and I am senior to some MDA pilots. If you are a mainline pilot from the start, why was I bypassed? If they were mainline airplanes, why could'nt a FO in a group 2 aircraft bid left seat of the 170?

The original LOA containing J4J (LOA 83 I think) allowed this, however, it was changed in BK at the request of Mngt. That is something the AAA MEC gave up, we had no part in that, it was changed before ALG, PDT and PSA agreed to LOA 91..

MDA pilots were not put on the mainline seniority list until after all classes had been filled.

Not true. It was decided everyone would be on the ML list prior to any CEL pilots going to MDA. Granted, there was not a list published after this because they only publish the list once a year. The first CEL class was in July. When a new list was published the following year, we were on it...

"The AAA MEC would never want to set the precedence of allowing non-AAA pilots to fly aircraft on the AAA operating certificate."

So they allow the precedence of putting new hires on the property when there are 1800 guys on furlough...Yeah thats much better.

This will happen again. APL pilots can bypass the 190 FO seat. You will see new-hires into the 190 with pilots on furlough

I figured it was easier to reply within your quote...

 

[ALGFLYR]

Not sure where you herd that from. Here is Attachment B, from LOA 91.


· Pilots employed by a Participating Wholly Owned Carrier who become MDA pilots or US Airways pilots under this Attachment B, may flow back to their respective Participating Wholly Owned Carriers. US Airways pilots employed by MDA, if furloughed from MDA, may displace into positions at Participating Wholly Owned Carriers in order of their seniority as US Airways pilots in accordance with the Flow Through Letter of Agreement (LOA #_tbd__) to be agreed to by the Company and the Association.

Why is there a distinction between CEL pilots and US Airways Pilots? It seems very clear to me. A CEL pilot goes back to their previous job and a "real" US Airways pilot has APL rights. That is what PSA agreed to and we never ratified a change to the agreement. (or the LOA that is to be determined). If you were entitled to APL rights it would specifically say so. But it specifically says you go back to PDT. This was a four party agreement and just because the mainline MEC changed it doesnt mean we, at PSA, did.

You are reading parts of LOA 91 out of context. The above paragraph you reference pertains to returning to the WO the pilots came from. (which by the way was not allowed to happen) The first part of that paragraph allows (not mandates) a CEL to return to their WO. The second part which you highlighted does NOT pertain to CEL pilots. Read it closely, it pertains to original APL pilots (those not coming from a WO) to flow down into a WO. That language was never worked out. CEL pilots were supposed to be able to flow-back as well as APL pilots NOT from a WO.

The part where we are allowed to exercise our rights as an APL pilot, including going to PSA under J4J, is in another part of the agreement. It is under attachment B-1 under definitions... Here it is:

An “Affected Pilot” is a pilot on the US Airways Pilots System
Seniority List who (a) has been furloughed or has been issued notice of
furlough under Section 23(B) of the Agreement, (b) has been recalled
to US Airways and subsequently has again been furloughed or issued
notice of furlough, or (c) has received notice of furlough from MDA, a
Participating Wholly Owned Carrier, or a Participating Affiliate
Carrier.

So, by definition, a CEL pilots went to MDA and was placed on the Seniority list. That satisfies the beginning of that paragraph. Then, when furloughed from MDA (part "c") we are an APL pilot. Pretty clear language...​

 

[d328pilot]

I have mothly copies of the updated CEL. You were not listed as mainline until the end. I am reading LOA 91 specifically as it was explained to the MEC. The parts of B-1 that you quote are out of context. That is ment to apply to original US Air pilots. Otherwise, the flow back to the previous carrier would not be included in attachment B. Why put that in if there was no difference? You can imagine what you want, we have the basis for a lawsuit and the courts will determine the outcome. I sat in on all of the discussions of the LOAs and flow through and your intrepretations are incorrect. Sorry.

 

[Bdfg1]

Courts already decided. CEL=APL. So sorry.

 

[ALGFLYR]

I have mothly copies of the updated CEL. You were not listed as mainline until the end. I am reading LOA 91 specifically as it was explained to the MEC. The parts of B-1 that you quote are out of context. That is ment to apply to original US Air pilots. Otherwise, the flow back to the previous carrier would not be included in attachment B. Why put that in if there was no difference? You can imagine what you want, we have the basis for a lawsuit and the courts will determine the outcome. I sat in on all of the discussions of the LOAs and flow through and your intrepretations are incorrect. Sorry.

Again, you are misunderstanding the agreement. That's OK, we can agree to disagree. The option to flow-back to PDT was just that, an option. Nothing said we HAD to flow-back. You can not dispute the language in the definitions. I have a good grasp on the language contained in the LOA. I was on the MEC when this was passed and this language was carefully looked at and many questions were asked for clarification. Again, if your lawyer can somehow show that the definition of an APL pilot is different than is clearly stated, more power to you...

 

[ponder]

"When the J4J program started I, along with every other pilots whos name appeared on the CEL list, was give 4 choices. I could stay at PSA, go to MDA as a captain only, go to MDA at the first available position, or go to only a Mainline position. "

I think everybody at PDT/ALG knew this was really only
two choices, stay where you are, or be a MDA F.O.
I'm guessing things were looking brighter at PSA
back then.

 

[d328pilot]

And the courts will decide ours too..enjoy

 

[Bdfg1]

Yep they sure will. Just as I stated they already have. CEL=APL. So sorry. Enjoy.

 

[d328pilot]

:crying: I dont remember your case addressing the bypass issue of the PSA pilots and mainline seniority numbers...I must have missed that one. And i dont believe that it is addressing the specific problems...either way, sue sue sue

 

[Bdfg1]

No need to address it as it was never a factor. Next time I suggest you take advantage of what is offered yourself instead of screwing your fellow WO pilots. Again all former CEL are now mainline pilots. So sorry. Enjoy.