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Poll...TFE 731 inflight shutdown

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With over 2000 hours behind the TFE731, I've had the following issues:

Precautionary shutdown during approach for T/R unlock light on a Lear 35. Faulty lower DPI switch. (Banged on it with fist and light extinguished.) Crappy Aeroncas and poor maintainance. (At a 135 operator, imagine that!)

Lear 35, FL410, cabin fills with whitish smoke, no abnormal indications or annunciators. 7 minutes later we're rolling out at Philly with the fire trucks. Number two bearing failed and threw oil into the breather tube, oil coked off and filled cabin with smoke.

Lear 55, 10-15% up and down engine surge on number one during climb through mid-twenties, switched to manual on fuel computer. RTB. Faulty N2 pickup.

Somebody had mentioned icing in the pneumatics. Correct me if I'm remembering this wrong, I don't fly the Lear anymore. If the fuel computers is turned off, the FCU is evacuated of fuel. The resulting decrease in pressure and temperature can result in P-3 icing. Loss of P-3 air opens the fuel metering pin, and the engine will runaway. (Without full overspeed protection, as the the computer is off.) And yet you'll still find folks who think it's cool to save fuel on the descent by turning the fuel computers off.

The only "real" engine failure I ever had the Lear was a CJ610 that flamed out.
 
CapnVegetto said:
By then we just said f-ck it!!! We give up. Turn off the da-n FC when it does it. .

I had that problem with windows 2000 too! Just had to reboot and it worked fine for a couple of days, Maybe the DEEC's are windows based ;) -kingaira90
 
My first job on a Westwind was as an SIC on a II. It had the digital ITT readout that has the "H" light up when the temp reaches 885.

Because of this, the PICs I flew with believed as long as the "H" wasn't lit up, it was OK. (The climb limit of 870 and the cruise limit of 849 often ignored.)

One day the "Fuel Controller Manual Mode" light comes on the left engine and I get the checklist. The PIC saw that it was over temping and shut it down, but it was too late. We landed and there was a stream of metal particles coming out the tailpipe.

Another Westwind I flew had minor fuel controller malfunctions (going to manual mode) but nothing particularly disturbing.

I was told once by an old hand that the reason the MSP program came about was the high unreliability of these engines when they first came out. Duncan told me these engines tend to be very beat up when coming off Westwinds and Hawkers, which I suspect is from pilots running them hot to try to make the plane go faster.

In my opinion the one thing you must do with these engines is always carefully observe the temp limits. That's ture of all engines but my impression is these are more sensitive than most.
 
Two in-flight shutdowns and one catastrohphic failure on the ground. Of the in-flight shutdowns, both were caused by maintenance center screwups - one engine had an over torqued oil fitting which failed and all engine oil was lost. The other was a precautionary shutdown after a false "bleed air leak" annunciator light could not be extinguished. The ground failure was caused when a turbine wheel came apart on start up.

'Sled
 
Ahh, Garrett Grenades.
Lost a seal in a -3 back in my Westwind days. Allowed high-pressure air into the oil system. Oil pressure gauge moved just like the fuel flow gauge: More throttle, more oil pressure (LOTS more!). Less throttle, less oil pressure.
Shut 'er down and parked it.
Before I joined this company, the high-pressure compressor let go on the brand new Hawker 800 at 65 knots on the takeoff roll in Red Deer, Alberta. 60 hours on the plane.
Zero problems with the CFE's on the current plane, which are half Garrett.
 
Speaking of which, at Simuflite I've heard a couple of times that there has never been a TFE731 involved in an inflight fire. Anyone know if this is true?
 
I have had more problems with the computers than the engine. Our computer on the 731 AR spooled back the right engine to idle at 410 on our Falcon 20. The Hawker would surge the right engine 10 %. We would have to go to manual mode to stop it. They would fix it and as soon as you got comfortable it would do it again.
I was told the same thing about no true fires.

FD
 
Pilot_Ryan said:
Speaking of which, at Simuflite I've heard a couple of times that there has never been a TFE731 involved in an inflight fire. Anyone know if this is true?
There have been plenty of false indications, but until recently, no fires. I seem to remember something about a recent one in Westwind, but that may have been something else. It's pretty hard to stay awake in groundschool. :eek:

'Sled
 
3,000+ hours in 731s in Lears, Falcons, Westwinds, no failures. A couple of minor computer issues but that's it.

Now, of course, I've jinxed myself...
 
The 731 seems to have gotten a pretty good reputation for reliability lately, but when it was first introduced it was a POS. Early Lear 35 operators always had a CJ powered LR25 follow them around with a spare 731 in the back.

A lot of newly introduced engines have problems...the original PW305 and ALF 500 series come to mind. Also, ask some of the 2000EX guys what they think of the upgraded Pratts. Lots of replacements there already.
 

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