POLAR vs. ATLAS

[furloughfodder]

fodder:

Our chance to improve the pay, terms and conditions of both groups went out the window when Polar crews accepted a contract extension rather than negotiate at the same time as Atlas. You made it easy for management to whipsaw all of us and my expectations are now very low.

Again, you show your lack of knowledge. How can we negotiate at the same time as Atlas? The merged contract will be decided by an arbitrator, not negotiations. That is why we wanted to get our contract pay as close to yours as possible, so when the arbitrator mergers out two CBAs they are both as high as possible. That's why it baffles me that you wanted us to take the first offer on the table.

If you had a legitimate beef with some Atlas crews you should have acted professionally and responsibly:

1. Don't agree to "back to work" language that prohibits retaliation against Atlas crews if you have no intention of complying with the agreement.

It is an independent board that is investigating the 'scab' situation. Not the MEC.

2. Keep your feelings private. Don't publish a list or call anyone a scab until the process is complete.

I agree 100%, that is why you have never seen me call any Atlas pilot a scab. I have said several times on here that I hope ZERO PERCENT of the 160 Atlas guys they are investigating are found innocent.

3. Have someone impartial within ALPA examine all the evidence.

4. If the very high burden of proof is met, file charges.

5. ALPA will conduct an Article 8 hearing for those charged.

6. If the charges are upheld, then and only then is that individual a scab.

Points 3-6 are the process that is taking place right now. No one is calling anyone a scab yet. They are all being investigated. I hope none of them are shown to be scabs.

So I guess your answer to my question is that we should not have negotiated (after our contract had expired 2 years ago) and just taken the first offer the comapany put on the table?

 

[Classicdriver]

Also, I would LOVE to see where you get this made up 7% figure. What a joke. If Polar gets sold off, I think Atlas will last about 6 months. Our routes and scheduled service are the gem of the airlines. Without Polar, Atlas is no different than Focus, Southern, and Tradewinds. (Nothing against those companies).



I can make up figures too. How is this:

POLAR MAKES UP 65% of ATLAS WORLDWIDE HOLDINGS TOTAL REVENUE. .

If this prediction is as good as the one Bobb (with two B's) made of AAWH folding within seven days of your strike, I feel mighty secure. I know, I know, its all Atlas's fault. Polar has Atlas to blame all bad things that don't go their way on. All good dictators have someone to blame and redirect focus on when they faulter.

65% of the revenues and 90% of the expense.

And where do you get that 30% of Atlas flying is Polar? I see two planes flying for Polar. One of them, not full time?

 

[DHC2 Driver]

confused

Furloghfeeder
Sorry but you are conveniently confused. The 3% that the polar guys accepted en mass two and a half years ago to allow the company to negotiate with us separately is what -300 is talking about. It would have been better for all of us had you not done that. Then we all would have gone into negotiations at the same time. Don't you think there was a reason the company offered it to you? They didn't want to chance that we would be in the cooling off period close to the same time. They didn't want us to support each other - and as you can see from cfires posts, Bob Fell played right into their hands. But it took all of you voting in the 3% to allow him to do that. THAT is why many Atlas pilots feel you sold them out early as well as often.

Your "independent" board is NOT independent. It is paid for by your MEC, the staff was picked by your MEC, and all the postage and expenses were paid by your MEC and it is comprised of "surprise" Polar pilots. In fact all the letters were post marked from Washington DC the same time Bobbbb was there. I guess your definition of independent is similar to your defining a picket lne as one vehicle with a sign on the windshield.

The ONLY person that has the authority in ALPA to label someone a scab is Duane Woerth. I wonder, if you are so intent on investigating this, if your committee will find the names of the UPS pilots that crossed your line at the Marriott and attempt to label them scabs. Or how about the teamsters drivers that unloaded Atlas cargo in ORD - are you going to try to investigate and label them? They drove cargo you claim was Polars and crossed your lines and delivered it to the warehouse. I know a few teamsters - I would like to see you try to call them a scab over this. But you can't, because just like it wasn't an Atlas strike, it wasn't their strike, IT WAS YOURS. And just because the teamsters decided not to honor your picket line and just like UPS decided not to honor your Marriott picket line doesn't mean you can label them scabs. So what did Atlas guys do different?

By the way did you know you went on strike for FOUR percent. The company and your negotiating committee were THAT close to a deal - FOUR percent!! You lost ground by not taking the companies last best offer - if that isn't evidence to you that HerndersonHairFell have their own agenda then you are a lost cause.

 

[B747-300]

"I hope ZERO PERCENT of the 160 Atlas guys they are investigating are found innocent."

That's what's known as a Freudian slip. Did you mean to say you hope zero percent are found guilty??

"It is an independent board that is investigating the 'scab' situation."

You mean the Strike Breakers Committee?? They are the bitterest little boys of all. One of the guys who you "Snake Listed" has given me some hints about who is on this committee. I hope to have the names posted here soon.

Besides, I said there needs to be someone IMPARTIAL handling the investigation. There's a big difference between impartial and independent. And you can't really call them independent anyway, as they were formed by a vote of your council and they receive council funds and support.

Please try to remember that one of your bitter little boys already posted the full "scab list" on PPRuNe.

"So I guess your answer to my question is that we should not have negotiated (after our contract had expired 2 years ago) and just taken the first offer the comapany put on the table?"

You should have been smart enough to know you had very, very little leverage. Without any leverage, your failure was assured.

"Again, you show your lack of knowledge."

Get with the program! You guys sold-out more than two years ago. We could have negotiated at the same time long ago if your council hadn't been overcome by greed. You blindly followed Bob F then and his influence is still destroying your council today.

Speaking of Bob F, isn't he being investigated for misusing ALPA funds? You and your union brothers will never get anywhere until you purge this guy (and the parrot head he hand-picked as his replacement) from any position of influence.

 

[cfire]

furloughfodder

Also, I would LOVE to see where you get this made up 7% figure. What a joke. If Polar gets sold off, I think Atlas will last about 6 months. Our routes and scheduled service are the gem of the airlines. Without Polar, Atlas is no different than Focus, Southern, and Tradewinds. (Nothing against those companies).

I got the 7% revenue from Jeff McDonald at ALPA National. Your are over confident of the value of your Polar routes and schedules. Just like when you went on strike and when we were in bankruptcy with Polar owing Atlas @$140 million plus 10 million per month ongoing operations after filing.

B747-300
Speaking of Bob F, isn't he being investigated for misusing ALPA funds? You and your union brothers will never get anywhere until you purge this guy (and the parrot head he hand-picked as his replacement) from any position of influence.

Yes he is. The one charge I know of is he has been using his ALPA cell phone as the primary contact number for his charter operation in ANC. I believe they found it listed in the yellow pages there also. How typical. Knowing ALPA, they will probably just make him pay and call it quits. I was quoted a number but can't remember if it was for one month or a few, so I won't comment on it except that it would be a felony in my state for theft of services.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Enough already!

Yawn, can we talk about something else?

Like......................Profit Sharing:smash:

 

[treetopflyer]

how bout this?

http://www.aircargonews.com/060130/unitedcargo.html

remember scott dolan? used to work for AAWH? now running UAL cargo division? speaking of widebody dedicated cargo aircraft? lots of money in the bank? intimate knowledge of operations/finance/contracts at AAWH?
Erickson retiring? Erickson's past record on airlines Reno Air? and TWA? i think sold em both after bankruptcy

UAL has huge brand recognition in the far east and would love to get a hold of a profitable little airline, but make no mistake, if they buy a "bottom feeder" which is how the union brothers will brand both atlas and or polar we will surely be furloughed and/or maybe given a preferential interview only! pray this dolan character uses big airline mentality and just goes out and wastes a couple billion on new airframes instead of buying us cheap. we are a bargain.

or not, talk amongst yourselves, but i bet we would get solidarity in a hurry between POLAS if something like this were to go down.

dont start any rumors i just try to read between the lines because that is where all the details usually hide

 

[Classicdriver]

Yawn, can we talk about something else?

Like......................Profit Sharing:smash:

Sounds like a good place to start. A nice little bonus around tax time would be welcome.

 

[AAflyer]

how bout this?

http://www.aircargonews.com/060130/unitedcargo.html

remember scott dolan? used to work for AAWH? now running UAL cargo division? speaking of widebody dedicated cargo aircraft? lots of money in the bank? intimate knowledge of operations/finance/contracts at AAWH?
Erickson retiring? Erickson's past record on airlines Reno Air? and TWA? i think sold em both after bankruptcy

UAL has huge brand recognition in the far east and would love to get a hold of a profitable little airline, but make no mistake, if they buy a "bottom feeder" which is how the union brothers will brand both atlas and or polar we will surely be furloughed and/or maybe given a preferential interview only! pray this dolan character uses big airline mentality and just goes out and wastes a couple billion on new airframes instead of buying us cheap. we are a bargain.

or not, talk amongst yourselves, but i bet we would get solidarity in a hurry between POLAS if something like this were to go down.

dont start any rumors i just try to read between the lines because that is where all the details usually hide

Bottom Feeders?

I just looked at the payscales at UAL and Atlas, they are almost identical, I am willing to bet with some of your work rules and pay credit you make more.

AA

 

[B747-300]

"Yawn, can we talk about something else?"

Is someone forcing you to view this thread at gunpoint? This topic has been viewed more than 4851 times, so obviously many people disagree with your view.

Might I suggest that you start your own "exciting" profit sharing thread?

 

[treetopflyer]

Bottom Feeders?

I just looked at the payscales at UAL and Atlas, they are almost identical, I am willing to bet with some of your work rules and pay credit you make more.

AA

guaranteed, but perception is everything

 

[AAflyer]

guaranteed, but perception is everything

Not any more, I don't think the Legacies have that image. Not to mention the canned flying we do. Kudos to you guys and the flying you do..It must be challenging, but I am sure rewarding.

regards,

AA

 

[ABOVE ME]

If you notice 747-300 started this thread. After no one bit he kept trying and trying until he got a few atlas buddies to join the we are not scabs love fest. Lots of things failed during the strike. But simply and truthfully its idiots like this 300 guy that proves time and time again how stupid pilots really are. The whole cut off my nose to spite my face is pitiful and just what management wants to see. It proves to them time amd time again just how stupid we are. Money, and QOL thats it. try to have fun while at work to ease the pain. All of this other stuff is just bull crap. As far as the scab thing goes if the shoe fits wear it. Dont be a punk. Lots of good guys at Atlas and Polar. Dont follow this dumb ass 300 guy down the slippery slope. if you gotta spend hundreds of words defending actions of self or other crew members then somethin is probably up. This is the Pepsi generation now where we are saying hey its ok to go around picket lines yada yada yada. I dont work for either but the last thing I want to walk around with at this point is an atlas id in my pocket. Good luck. And thats to both of ya. Atlas, and Polar. Alpa has proven its worthlesness by this prime example of Atlas/Polar. 2 pilot groups same company and ALPA still couldnt get it together....DUMB DUMB DUMB

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

If you notice 747-300 started this thread. After no one bit he kept trying and trying until he got a few atlas buddies to join the we are not scabs love fest. Lots of things failed during the strike. But simply and truthfully its idiots like this 300 guy that proves time and time again how stupid pilots really are. The whole cut off my nose to spite my face is pitiful and just what management wants to see. It proves to them time amd time again just how stupid we are. Money, and QOL thats it. try to have fun while at work to ease the pain. All of this other stuff is just bull shoot. As far as the scab thing goes if the shoe fits wear it. Dont be a punk. Lots of good guys at Atlas and Polar. Dont follow this dumb ass 300 guy down the slippery slope. if you gotta spend hundreds of words defending actions of self or other crew members then somethin is probably up. This is the Pepsi generation now where we are saying hey its ok to go around picket lines yada yada yada. I dont work for either but the last thing I want to walk around with at this point is an atlas id in my pocket. Good luck. And thats to both of ya. Atlas, and Polar. Alpa has proven its worthlesness by this prime example of Atlas/Polar. 2 pilot groups same company and ALPA still couldnt get it together....DUMB DUMB DUMB

You better be careful, or -300 will turn on you also ...............:nuts:

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

"Yawn, can we talk about something else?"

Is someone forcing you to view this thread at gunpoint? This topic has been viewed more than 4851 times, so obviously many people disagree with your view.

Might I suggest that you start your own "exciting" profit sharing thread?

Yeah, I think I will, instead of this boring old "He said she said" crap fest!